(09-30-2023, 08:15 PM)mikesez Wrote:

(09-30-2023, 07:04 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: Oops. Lol. This is a little embarrassing. I should have known better than to ask to state an obvious fact because it provided an opportunity for you to attempt an escape by creating a tangent, which you did. And a good one at that; foreign exchange students, petroleum workers and even a dollar figure! Very impressive. 

Since you are avoiding said obvious fact (and I really don't feel like stepping around another deflection attempt) let me state it. Paul Whelan had priority consideration because he had already been imprisoned for three years when Griner was arrested. As is the custom for imprisoned Americans abroad, there were certainly back-channel communications to secure a release for Whelan. Exchanging Bout for his release was probably an element of those communications. 

And then, the anthem kneeling black lesbian landed in the lap of Vladamir Putin, who knew instinctively this was a game changer because of how she identified and how that identification was central to the ideology of Joe Biden's handlers. Suddenly, Whelan is off the table. The Russians understand American leftist politics and its emphasis on symbology. And, of course, a disregard for priority considerations. Surely the American President and his party wouldn't dare allow an anthem kneeling black lesbian to molder in a Russian prison (in this era of rampant anthem kneeling and black lesbian celebration) while securing the release of some white guy who probably votes Republican. Blasphemy!

We all know what happened next. The white guy remains in a Russian prison while the lever that could have very well sprung him was squandered on a social and ideological symbol in order to curry political favor. Biden's handlers got their girl back, not what logic and inherent fairness dictated.

Edit: Btw, does anyone remember how Joe Biden's handlers publicly fawned over Griner's wife, and even invited her to the White House, while Whelan's family stated they had been left largely in the dark? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

So if Griner had been arrested before Whelan, you would have no complaint?
And those hypothetical small fry students and workers, if they were arrested after Whelan, they have to stay in prison until a deal is made for Whelan?

Your hypotheticals accomplish nothing but to muddy the waters. We're talking about this case and these circumstances. 

Would I have a complaint were their roles reversed? Absolutely not. If Griner has been languishing in a Russian jail for three years before Whelan was arrested, he would be told to get comfortable and wait for help. If this administration had any fortitude, they could have finagled a trade for both in exchange for one of the most wanted and reviled men on earth. Alas...

I'm sure you thought my argument was about race and sexual identity. It was not, at all. My intent is to illustrate how easily manipulated our government was by a sworn opponent using our social mores. This was nothing but a display of abject weakness by this administration, widely noted on the global scale along with our exit from Afghanistan. What did Russia do not long after Griner was let go? Grabbed a NYT reporter. They know we're weak.  

And I would feel as equally disdainful about a Republican administration which did the same. There are clear cut times when we have to stop thinking about sides and start thinking as a nation. We have enemies out there who would love to put the pain to us any chance they get. We are the most powerful nation on earth, and we need to start conducting ourselves like it. 

America has a love/hate relationship with the world. They want us on that wall. They need us on that wall.

Edit: I also believe Democrats are more than capable of fielding a strong government. The problem is both parties have such loud wingnuts now that it blurs the center.

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