(09-30-2023, 11:03 PM)homebiscuit Wrote:

(09-30-2023, 08:15 PM)mikesez Wrote: So if Griner had been arrested before Whelan, you would have no complaint?
And those hypothetical small fry students and workers, if they were arrested after Whelan, they have to stay in prison until a deal is made for Whelan?

Your hypotheticals accomplish nothing but to muddy the waters. We're talking about this case and these circumstances. 

Would I have a complaint were their roles reversed? Absolutely not. If Griner has been languishing in a Russian jail for three years before Whelan was arrested, he would be told to get comfortable and wait for help. If this administration had any fortitude, they could have finagled a trade for both in exchange for one of the most wanted and reviled men on earth. Alas...

I'm sure you thought my argument was about race and sexual identity. It was not, at all. My intent is to illustrate how easily manipulated our government was by a sworn opponent using our social mores. This was nothing but a display of abject weakness by this administration, widely noted on the global scale along with our exit from Afghanistan. What did Russia do not long after Griner was let go? Grabbed a NYT reporter. They know we're weak.  

And I would feel as equally disdainful about a Republican administration which did the same. There are clear cut times when we have to stop thinking about sides and start thinking as a nation. We have enemies out there who would love to put the pain to us any chance they get. We are the most powerful nation on earth, and we need to start conducting ourselves like it. 

America has a love/hate relationship with the world. They want us on that wall. They need us on that wall.

Edit: I also believe Democrats are more than capable of fielding a strong government. The problem is both parties have such loud wingnuts now that it blurs the center.

So if your brother is visiting Russia as a tourist and gets implicated for starting a bar fight that he (maybe) wasn't even involved in, you'd say, "best of luck, buddy, but we can't get you out until they let Whelan out"
Note that Griner's crime per Russian law was a civilian crime that typically carries a 15 day sentence and she had been held for 10 months at that point.  On the other hand Whelan is charged under military law.

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