(10-25-2023, 09:43 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote:

(10-24-2023, 07:37 PM)mikesez Wrote: Neither Israel nor Hamas has a vision for peace. Nothing the IDF does, short of annihilating all of the Palestinians or deporting them far away, will ever "bring them to heel".  Any future that includes Palestinians remaining in Palestine has to include Israel basically respecting their rights to their land and their livelihood, or else it will not be a peaceful future. And Israel is not prepared to do that.  Not this generation.
Israel is not the only bad guy, of course.  Any other oppressed group would have made more of an effort to accommodate and assimilate, except the Palestinians have been paid to continue their struggle.  At first the Arab League paid them to struggle and fight but now it's basically just Iran and some wealthy fanatics all over the world.  
If an Iranian came here and started offering people money to commit violence, we would say, "go back to your country, man." At best.  We might throw him in jail.  That's my point.  We would view any person who took the money as a traitor to our people.
Until the Palestinians start feeling the same way about their so-called allies, until they start policing themselves, and telling each other, "let's not start more crap with the Israelis," they will never ever be "brought to heel.". Israel can't do that for them.  Neither can we.  They have to figure it out for themselves. 
But they'll never figure it out unless they're offered a chance at dignity and equality with the Jews.

You put the cart before the horse.

How so? Can you imagine a world where the Palestinians remain in Gaza, and stop fighting for years, without Israel being more respectful to the rights of all Palestinians? I can't.  They may do a lot of damage to the place and declare "mission accomplished" but if they don't change some of this big picture stuff, another group, maybe worse than Hamas, will be constituted in their place.

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