(12-02-2023, 12:18 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote:

(12-01-2023, 04:11 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: Does anyone who is anti-EV have a reason specific to the technology? I’m curious to know if the reason has more to do with a fear of being forced to buy one eventually and not having a choice vs a concern that there is something inherently bad about the concept.

Full disclosure, I don’t have an EV and wouldn’t want to be forced into buying one but I think the tech has some promise. A friend has a Tesla and is constantly extolling the virtues of it. They take trips between Jax and Indiana from time to time with no issue. On the other hand, hybrids and hydrogen vehicles have some advantages without the drawback of needing a charging station.

I don't mind EVs as an additional car for city driving. It still doesn't make much sense to me as an "environmental" option. Here's some of the reasons...

Mining and Rare Earth Materials:

• Intensive mining for lithium, cobalt, and nickel.
  
• High environmental costs: land degradation, water pollution.
  
• Labor concerns: human rights abuses, exploitative practices.
  

Environmental Impact of Battery Production:

• High energy use and carbon footprint in battery production.
  
• Significant water usage, contributing to water depletion in mining areas.
  
• Toxic waste and pollution from mining activities.
  

Weight and Energy Efficiency:

• Heavier weight due to battery packs.
  
• Increased tire and road wear.
  

Lifecycle Emissions and Manufacturing:

• Energy-intensive manufacturing process.
  
• Lifecycle emissions from production to disposal.
  
• Dependency on energy sources in manufacturing locations.
  

Energy Sources for Charging:

• Dependence on electricity grid, often powered by fossil fuels.
  
• Regional variations in the source of electricity (coal, natural gas, renewables).
  
• Grid strain and infrastructure challenges.
  

Recycling and Waste Management:

• Challenges in battery disposal and recycling.
  
• Inefficient recycling processes, leading to environmental concerns.
  
• Batteries ending up in landfills.
  

Socio-Economic and Ethical Considerations:

• Impact on local communities near mining areas.
  
• Geopolitical issues due to concentration of rare earth materials in certain regions.
  
• Ethical considerations in material sourcing and labor practices
  

Overall, while EVs offer significant benefits in reducing emissions during their operational phase, their overall environmental impact is complex and depends on various factors including the source of electricity, battery production, and end-of-life management. This impact is nuanced compared to the more straightforward impact of ICE vehicles, which primarily revolves around CO2 emissions during operation. As usual, I don't feel like we're operating with all the information we need to make an informed decision. EVs are unsustainable at this juncture. 

Should people buy them? If they want, sure. Should the government be pushing for them? Absolutely not. We're not ready. We don't have any of these questions really answered.

Those are all real concerns, but in most places for most people an EV still results in significantly less carbon emissions over its operational life.  If the manufacturing and recharging are both done entirely with coal fired power plants, the carbon benefits are questionable. As long as there's at least some nat gas or nuclear or renewable in the power mix, there are significant reductions in carbon emissions.

The other costs you mention, water, land use, etc., are local problems.  Climate is global, though.  Carbon emissions are the main concern for any serious environmentalist and it's not a close question.

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