(09-03-2024, 07:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:

(09-03-2024, 06:48 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: If humans are essentially machines and divided into two camps, natural and supernatural, then the same life experiences for two people of the same camp should produce two people who think, believe and behave identically. But it doesn’t. 

However, distilled down to its most basic elements, all of nature is purely mathematical. So, in the purest of essence, we are indeed machines.

You misinterpret what I said.  What I was trying to say was that whether you believe that a machine can be human depends on whether you believe in the supernatural.  If you don't believe in the supernatural, then you only believe in the natural world which is governed by the laws of nature, and if you believe that, then you should believe that humans are machines.  Then you would believe that, depending on our expertise at science, we can create machines that are human.  

As to your statement, if two humans have the same life experiences, then they would think, believe, and behave identically, I would say that if two identical humans had exactly the same life experiences, they would indeed believe and behave identically.  Those two people would have to start with the exact same biology because we are governed by our biology as well as our experiences.  For example, identical twins who have exactly the same life experiences.  Those two people would think, believe, and behave identically.  But it can't happen because they can't have exactly the same life experiences.  They are not in the same body and in the exact same spot looking out at the world in the same direction at all times.  But if you believe there can be a parallel universe, then a person in a parallel universe who is identical to you and who has the exact same life experiences would then inevitably behave exactly as you do in this universe.

So on the question of whether a machine could ever be so human-like we can't tell the difference, I would have to say yes.

You're leaving no room for free will.  Surely we are creatures of habit and I think your explanation above does explain most of the human condition.  I don't necessarily believe free will exists all of the time for every single person and for some people it may never truly rear its head, but I think what separates humanity in general from animals is an ability to reason and choose (or otherwise overcome your own programming) and sometimes those choices are reasoned but not necessarily logical or obvious and that's no smoking gun as it could be explained away as biology (initial programming) or life experience (added programming) as you have above, but this is a very gray area and unwittingly risks conclusions about AI that ultimately lead to the extinction of our species.  It's fun to debate the gray area for a time, but it always eventually leads me back to the truism of "if you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything."

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