(11-28-2024, 11:59 AM)homebiscuit Wrote:

(11-28-2024, 11:16 AM)Jag149 Wrote: Interesting thing is the vast majority of companies are already limiting their China exposure. Those with high exposure to the Chinese market have taken quite a beating in the stock market. They are moving fast to places like Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia and the like. The New "in" place to be is India. A population almost equal to China that is growing unlike China whose one child policy has run it's course resulting in a declining population. They are quietly modifying this policy now. Unlike in China in these other countries companies do not have to worry as much about theft of intellectual property, random arrests of executives, sudden individual bans from leaving the country and no access to the Chinese Justice system.

People can get all twisted up over this tariff thing, but I view it as a waste of emotion and energy. Maybe an attack talking point for the Left leaning and a defending point for the Right.   At the end of the day the actual results will lie somewhere in the middle so both sides will be correct somewhat. This is good as they can then discuss who was more right, which is good and will keep them out of trouble

Kevin O'Leary says he's already pulled his investments out of China because of their cutthroat business practices. I saw an interview with him on News Nation and he talked about how theft, lies and deception are at the core of Chinese business practices.

To China's credit, they have upped their manufacturing game and now produce very good quality and precision products for more specialized industries. Plus, their turnaround time from engineering and tool development to the manufacturing phase is pretty much unparalleled in the world.  

China would be a most welcomed manufacturing and trading partner on the global stage if not for the CCP. They openly flaunt patents and copyrights, but companies are willing to deal with them because of their manufacturing ability and costs. All aided by their complete disregard for environmental concerns and worker safety standards. But even more pressing is their bellicosity towards the world. The CCP doesn't want to share and sees the exploitation of their populace as a means to an end. They want the same respect as developed countries who fortified their foundations with social, legal and environmental efforts over the last century without exerting those same efforts themselves. Exactly like their manufacturing and technological larceny. They refuse to accept that these areas are dependent upon each other for sustained success. 

With that said, China is achieving technological success of their own making. The knowledge they gained over the last few decades by sending their students abroad have culminated in the establishment of some excellent universities and research facilities. Like all countries, they have their good and bad. The issue with China is the polarization of the good and bad is so stark. It's like dealing with an educated and capable mafia.

If China is able to maintain incentives for ordinary Chinese people to work hard and innovate, the CCP itself will diversify, become less repressive, and you will see Chinese businesses compete with each other. These things are definitely happening in the electric car sector. If these things happen in more sectors, the Chinese success will be deserved.  

In the more likely scenario, China will continue to mow down entrepreneurs who get too big and they will be unable to do anything but make stuff others invented cheaper and faster.  That is no way to improve their citizens' quality of life and does not help on the "soft power" front either.  

Tariffs are an appropriate punishment for China's use of slave labor, overuse of coal, lack of worker protections, lack of environmental protections, IP theft, and many other wrongs.  But they should be targeted to the things we can make lots of elsewhere.  Target their steel and electronics and motors and textiles.  Don't target the solar panels and batteries.  The world needs as many solar panels and batteries as possible right now.

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