Quote:My point is that although it didn't prove that concealed carry permits reduce the murder rate, it did prove that THE LEFT WAS WRONG about concealed carry permits causing an increase in the murder rates.


 

You immediately jump to imply hypocrisy when I never stated that concealed carry permits cause a drop in murders? In both cases of correlation I think the proponents should admit that they don't actually know if there is any causation. In both cases, causation (or partial causation) is possible.

Does anyone have the over-time statistics on how many murders and violent crimes have been committed by concealed carry permit holders? I found two sets of numbers, each from a party on one side or the other of the debate. Both are linked below. Goes without saying that they're each trying to get their own point across, and neither one addresses the simple question of murders/violent crimes committed by CCW holders over time. If we could see the numbers over time for CCW murders, it'd be very helpful to this argument. If anyone can find a credible, unbiased source (i.e., not a left/right-wing organization, news outlet or blog) that shows those numbers, please post it here.

 

http://www.vpc.org/press/1310ccw.html

 

http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myt...led-carry/

 

To your second point, all we have to go on is a correlation. Even the numbers I called into question above wouldn't show causation, just a stronger correlation one way or the other. There are so many factors that go into murder rates that it's entirely possible that increased CCW permits are playing some minor part in reducing murders, but I'm not at all sure that's the case (I tend to believe the opposite, actually), and it's almost a given that other factors are playing a much greater role in reducing the murder rate.

---