Quote:Man, you still don't get it or your driving your American exceptionalism agenda is just too important to you.

 

America does not answer to any nation, except perhaps now Israel.  Thanks Boehner.  But we do work with other nations on an international scale to an end of nuclear non-proliferation, and should continue to do so.

 

We are far from the only military power in the world.  The EU, Russians, or Chinese could mount a successful invasion of Iran tomorrow if they chose, but they will choose not to do so, because they are sensible and pragmatic in their international diplomacy, not because they are afraid of Tehran.

 

The Russians are the ones selling them the equipment meeting with their Generals against UN sanctions and threatening to violate their end of the START treaty.  The Chinese are actively hacking the defense department at will.  Between the two of them there is a good chance that they leaked classified security information to the libyians.  You really think THEY are going to be the ones to deal with these people?  When was the last time the EU put up a major force in response to a major international threat?  


 

In this issue, you seem to think there is no middle ground:  total capitulation of Iran, or, as you just stated, total capitulation of the US.  You call my "middle ground" failure.  Failure, to me, is another war we can't afford.  A nuclear Pakistan still hasn't attacked a nuclear India, nor has North Korea, which may not even have a bomb, been able to attack their hated, and far more successful, rival to the south.  Why?  Because use of that weapon will elicit an attack on that country by not just the US, but every other military power on the globe. 

 

What middle ground.  They get the money now, they get commerce now, neither of which can be taken away by the snap back provisions under the agreement and all we get is the promise of international inspections by the IAEA which is already having to make side deals just to get into the country including outsourcing some sample collection to the IRANIANS themselves and one of their members has already has his life threatened by the regime?  What did we get again?  Why is everyone on your side of the isle so excited?  oh it just sounds like diplomacy?  Give me a break.  


 

The US will remain the only country that "got away" with using one (er, two).

 

I think under this framework, Iran may actually achieve a nuclear weapon in 10 - 15 years.  Without this framework, they will achieve it in about 5 years.  The choices are this deal, all out war, or remaining sanctions under which Iran still gets a weapon.  There is no fourth way, even if Ronald Reagan, John Wayne, and Charlton Heston magically reappear tomorrow and summon the Iranian foreign minister to Switzerland.

 

And one last thing that really hasn't been mentioned:  Yes, the angry mob in front of Iranian Parliament chants "Death to America".  Meanwhile, the internet beams in American ideas and culture into the living rooms of the young Iranian's living rooms, and they eat it up like Kardashian Kandy.  I have never been to Iran, but those that have visited do not bring back stories of men keeping harems living in caves and praying for America's death 24/7.  They bring back stories of a country of universities, empowered women, and a huge population under the age of 30 that want more information and experiences beyond just the one book (not a bad idea ANYWHERE, if you ask me).

 

And that 150 billion?  We aren't giving it to them, it was theirs all along.  The hostages?  They're not being held for ransom, they are prisoners.  They have been charged, arrested, being given due process, and are probably getting a fairer, faster trial than they would have in Mexico.

 

Just so you know, that lost you ALL credibility with me.  I am responding for the benefit of the group.  


 

I still think Iran sucks, but I think it has potential.  So did Reagan, actually, but that's another story.

 

There was a fourth way.  When the teaming masses of Iranians were yearning to breathe free and ready to overthrow the radical jihadists that want to kill us we should have helped the teaming masses yearning to breathe free.  Instead, for the last six years we have been slowly legitimizing the regime.  We missed our chance and now we are going to show that young impressionable generation that the ayatollah can bring them Western Culture and economic prosperity brought to you by undying devotion to allah and Shariah law.  Nwo that's change you can believe in. 

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