Quote:JJ,


It's revisionist history to say Iran destabilized Iraq... the fact is that the usa's terrible management of the occupation lead to a vacuum which lead to Al Qaeda in Iraq, remember that? Yeah, all Qaeda in Iraq happened... not to even mention how we basically set up the sunni / shia antagonism by completely disbanding the military and then putting the minority sect in charge of the puppet regime we implemented! To say iran was at fault is so simplistic, not to mention entirely untrue.

 

1.) I never said that it was the only destablizing force.  Obviously in a country like Iraq with so many different groups with different alliances and agendas there are going to be several factors in forming a long standing stable democracy.  In America's history it took us 100 plus years to fully settle the question of current federalism vs. confederation including a civil war.  


 

2.)Last i checked, the rivalry between factions of Islam has been going on a long time before America entered the scene and I'm sure that the actions of Sadaam against rival groups didn't exactly warm everyone's hearts to come over and braid each others hair.  


 

3.) I will admit that I am no expert but i have been up the last hour pouring over parliamentary election results and its hard for me to see the installation of a puppet government .
 


Also, we had this discussion regarding a neo-con wet dream of invading iran in 2009--- the fact is that was an impossibility, and if you are honest with yourself, you'd acknowledge that there was nothing we could have done to help the green party of hope.

 

We can agree to disagree.  



Lastly, I'd like to point to back to what I said earlier, I appreciate your opinions on this matter, and I like reading your thoughts, for the most part... :-)


But the point of view you have are merely opinions on this subject, the facts just don't coincide with a lot of your positions, in my mind-st least.

 

And you have a right to think that.  If you would like to point out a factual misrepresentation that I have made about the contents of the deal with Iran then i would be happy to amend my position.  As it stands, 150 billion dollars of unfrozen assets is a fact, the delays in the inspections process is a fact, the banning of American inspectors is a fact, the fact that according to the deal the break out time in 2025 will be zero is a fact and when questioned about hostages the president authoring this foreign policy didn't make the distinction to then call them prisoners under due process.  

 

 

Quote:...which is still an occupation force.

 

1.) If you want to call troops supporting Iraqi forces that then that's fine.  

 

2.) that's a lot better than the current occupying force.  

 

Quote:Actually, I was referring to the "Contras" of the Iran-Contra affair.

 

You remember - that time the Reagan administration was selling arms to the Iranian government, and using the money the sales raised to fund rebels leading a fight against the Communist Sandanista regime in Nicaragua, circa 1987?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80...tra_affair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandinista...tion_Front

 

You know what eventually took down the Sandanistas?  Technically nothing, as they're still in power, just not as Marxist as they once were.  AN ELECTION.  The Bush administration poured millions of dollars into the campaign supporting the opposition, Violeta Chamorro.  And unlike Marcos in the Phillipines in 1986, they were actually fair, and when Sandanista president Ortega did not win, he actually stepped down.

 

End of conflict, but not the Sandanista party.

 

Back to Iran.

 

We monkeyed with Iran's political process during the Eisenhower administration, and don't think the Iranians have forgotten.  We've also shot down a civilian jetliner of theirs for good measure, killing 290 innocent people.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

 

And as I've mentioned before, I think Iran sucks, just as every theocracy sucks - but they do have a basis for not liking us aside from their hatred of Israel and our continuing support of that country.

 

With all due, scratch that.  The United States doesn't go around shooting down planes just because our sea captains have a fetish for the smell of burning flesh.  You neglect to mention the fact that the ships crew was fired upon and that they tried to hail the aircraft 10 times and were unsuccessful.  I would hold it as a tragedy any time civilians are killed and this certainly qualifies.  At the same time, the reaction of a battle commander when he perceives a threat in an attempt to protect his crew is wholly different than just blowing up innocent civilians because of a religious dogma, like the subsidiaries of Iran do on a regular basis!

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