Quote:And after WW2 the UN turned that into a homeland for the Jews who avoided slaughter. Was it fair to the Arabs who lived there? No. There were a lot of unfair border changes after WW2. Only one place chose to make it an excuse for killing busloads of children.


Israel did not kick out the Arabs who lived there, they were free to remain as Israeli citizens. 
Note also that none of their Arab brethren offered the Palestinian Arabs the chance to immigrate. 

Germany killed millions of Jews and, based upon its rearming after WWI, proved that it could not be trusted. It earned its border redivisions.

 

Palestine, on the other hand, had no notable involvement in WWII. They were just told one day that they were no longer a country, and a band of terrorists (as we would call them today if they had been Palestinian) suddenly owned their land.

 

Quote:The fact that this half handed ideological masochism actually passes for intellectualism in this day and age is frankly shocking!  There are those in this country who can look at a situation like this where we get no tangible meaningful benefit from an international accord and they can be solely content with idea that 'America isn't leading.  We are not in control.  The EU controls us.  YES INTERNATIONAL MASTERS.'

 

Then we find out that the lead Iranian negotiator was standing yelling at the international delegation (including women) like they were five year old children embarrassing our chief diplomat

 

And Tj, if you want to lower yourself to misscharecterizing the conservative position on this deal then go right ahead.  All that you are doing is demonstrating that your position is based on your emotional predisposition and biases and not the facts on the ground. 

 

What we have in this situation is a national entity that is sworn to undermine our international interests and ultimately our destruction.  This deal does nothing to change that, it just gives them a stronger economy and a pathway to being a nuclear power.  The idea that some are so giddy just to see our country embarrassed on the world stage pushed around like some pitiful Giant is both sickening and dangerous!

1. We don't have "international masters", but we are now part of an international community. Insisting unilaterally on the way things are going to be no longer flies.

 

2. The lead Iranian negotiator was shut down and almost kicked out by Iran for his conduct.

 

3. My position has nothing to do with emotion. It has everything to do with the way the world works, and the world is no longer America-centric. Iran doesn't see our prisoners as hostages. If Iranian citizens were arrested in the United States and incarcerated (I'm sure it's happened), would we be inclined to release them as "hostages"? The right wing element of this nation would not be satisfied with any deal that didn't completely cripple Iran, and that wasn't going to happen. Iran can posture all they want, but the fact that this was an international agreement makes it that much more likely that the rest of the west will support us if it's violated, up to and including the use of military force depending on how severe the infractions are.

 

4. There are lots of nations that don't like the US, and several of them are already nuclear powers. Should we go to the bargaining table and insist that they disarm and dismantle their nuclear weapons stores as well? How far do you think we'd get? We no longer control who gets a bomb, period. This deal will, at the very least, slow Iran down and give us legal footing to go after them if it becomes apparent that they have a nuke.

 

Quote:There's a couple of major differences.

Unlike Israel,  the so called ' Palestinians' name soccer ( football ) stadiums,  monuments, street signs, etc.  after convicted terrorists that killed Israelis.  In some cases,  terrorists that killed Americans.    Also,  their hatred of Israelis is in their textbooks.  Their hatred is institutionalized and the ones that don't have this view are in great danger if it becomes known.  


I think another major difference is there are many Israelis that foolish believe there can be peace ( obviously, the person you chatted with Online doesn't fit this category ) with them and take risks to attempt to achieve this that tragically lead to the murders of countless Israelis.   

Israel has a whole freaking airport named after David Ben-Gurion.

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