Quote:I think you and I are really close on this. I get while environmentally to survive as a species, these birds would do this. It's weird to me to think about when applying the same survival scenario to humans, but I can get it.


My comparison to China may have some points of comparison, but in this same context admittedly it doesn't fit. These birds are doing it due to a shortage of males and the need to survive, not because a shortage of males means females will turn gay. Obviously there is not an environmental struggle for humans to survive. I don't know that bit about the clownfish or why they do that, but I wouldn't know how to apply that to humans. I don't recall if it was you, but someone was making the argument people could be environmentally influenced to be LGBT by hanging around with groups of people that are gay or people who are more publicly accepting of being gay. That is a bit less credible to me.

Nah I dont think we are close at all. Its not just those particular birds its many others animals change their sexual preference/behaviour and even gender due to outside influences. As you said homosexuality is widespread in nature,well so is outside influenced sexual behaviour so why not in humans? Can you answer that?


"Claudia Wascher, a zoologist at Anglia Ruskin University, adds another nuance: If homosexuality is often adaptive, as she thinks, it’s also not going to be a straightforward trait inherited by some fixed percentage of a population, with frequencies changing in the simple manner of color patterns or height. Rather, the potential for becoming homosexual will vary from individual to individual, like curiosity or boldness or any other personality trait, and be shaped by the complex interaction of biology with social and environmental circumstance." Basically this.


Also this is of note.


Personality, genetics, and developmental experiences all have a place in influencing the development of homosexual attractions. Drs. Byne and Parsons at Columbia University believe it is important to "appreciate the complexities of sexual orientation and resist the urge to search for simplistic explanations, either psychosocial or biologic." (Byne and Parsons, pp. 236–37) They emphasize that in addition to the influences of genetics or the environment, the individual plays an important role in determining his or her identity.

Dr. John Money stated, "Many wrongly assume that whatever is biological cannot be changed, and whatever mental can be. Both propositions are in error. Homosexuality is always biological and always mental, both together. It is mental because it exists in the mind. It is biological because the mind exists in the brain. The sexual brain through its extended nervous system communicates back and forth with the sex organs." (Money, p. 123)


This explains what I've been trying to say in the simplest way possible. I think you have begun to realize how wrong your viewpoint is,but this should really hammer home the point.

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