Quote:You can't even say what you think is true when I preface it by saying it's okay to not know or to change your mind later? You won't even say what your opinion of the situation is?


If a guy with a known drinking problem walks away from an accident he caused smelling of alcohol, would you also withhold forming an opinion on whether or not he was driving under the influence if he refused to take a breathalyzer test at the scene?


I have said in many ways, I am not a court judging Trump guilty. I am a person looking at all the pieces of the puzzle and coming to a conclusion on what I believe is most likely the truth.


What do we know about Trump? He is a narcissist. A pathological liar. A misogynist. Was accused of marital rape by his ex. Is unapologetic in all facets of his life. Acts like the rules do not apply to him. Has said (hyperbole or not) he can't control himself and takes tic tacs before forcing himself on women he finds attractive and he believes they let him because of his star power. Has said very flattering things about Jeffrey Epstein including "he likes women about as young as I do." Took the 5th Amendment over 50 times to avoid violating his prenuptial agreement and having to pay off his ex-wife. Has been proven to be a very "handsy" guy with women he has just met on countless videos. Trump insulted accusers in his typical, "better than you" fashion. (Is any of this untrue?)


What do we know about the accusers? There are about a dozen of them. I believe only one is seeking money from Trump. They do not seem to know each other. The accusations span a lengthy time frame and come from various places in the country. Their accusations seem to match a similar pattern as Trump himself described. There are others who have corroborated being made aware of the accusations well before Trump ran for office. The fly in the ointment for many is the timing of the accusations. I have read who these women are from reporters to escorts to make up artists to beauty pageant contestants and what they are alleging.


Looking at all of the things I know, absent a smoking gun, I can assess..


Does it fit the profile of the man? Absolutely. It's not like he's Nelson Mandela. Did he have opportunity? Yes. Did he have motivation? He says he can't control himself (hyperbole or not) and is on his third marriage because he has infidelity issues. He does what he wants and even his closest allies and confidants have no ability to control, temper or influence him. Is it possible an accuser is lying? Absolutely. It is not as common for women to make up accusations, but it absolutely happens. Is it possible a dozen women are lying? Technically it is, but it is highly unlikely. What percentage of accusations of sexual assault or rape do you think are made by women who are simply making it up? 1 in 10? 1 in 3? Even if you believe HALF of the women who accuse men of improper touching are making it up, you can apply that logic to flipping a coin. The odds of flipping a coin 12 times and coming up with heads each time is: 0.001953125. So is it possible a dozen women are making it up and Trump, who fits the profile, is innocent of inappropriately touching at the very least ONE of the women accusing him? Sure. Am I using common sense to come to a conclusion that leads me to believe he more than likely DID touch at least one of these women inappropriately? Yes. Is there definitive evidence? Not yet. The nature of the crime is significantly less easy to prove than murdering them with a claw hammer. Am I slamming the table saying he needs to be jailed today? No. Applying basic common sense, assessing all of the details and taking half a second to ask yourself what is most likely, objectively, will lead you to the same MOST LIKELY conclusion. You refuse to even state what you think. You won't even admit what you feel is most likely the truth. You just want to sit on a fence and feel righteous.

Thank you Kotite. We can now bring this debate full circle.


"Based on the logic of this message board, I assume people will say all of the other coeds who allege this guy attacked, groped or molested them in some way are making it up."


We can now see that every case is different and that you can't judge a man guilty without any concrete evidence. Sure you can believe one is more likely than the other but you can't definitely say whether he is guilty or innocent. This is why Trump fans may not 100% believe the accusations and may be skeptical until there is real evidence to prove anything. I had to be stubborn to get you to see the other side of things but now you have I guess.


I can stop playing the devils advocate now So yeah I feel he is innocent until evidence proves that he is not.

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