(05-31-2022, 09:53 AM)Mikey Wrote:

(05-27-2022, 10:23 PM)Bullseye Wrote: Ego?!?

Seriously?!?  Your problem with Ngakoue is ego?

Here's a newsflash:  NFL players have been the elite athletes in their schools and communities in their entire lives.  They have been gifted adulation and admiration for their athletic prowess.  People have offered and paid them great sums of money/in kind contributions, etc. to get them to come to their schools, where thousands, perhaps millions will cheer them on, only to have more of them do so on Sundays.  NFL players-especially good and great ones-have large egos.

You think Deion Sanders didn't have an ego?  Too easy?  What about Tony Boselli?  Was that humility talking when he beckoned Jason Taylor to come down the field on that Monday Night game?  What about when Fred Taylor got in a snit when he wasn't named the best player in Jaguars history?  That wasn't his ego shining through?  When Richard Sherman called out Crabtree after the NFC championship game a few years back?  That wasn't ego?  When Peyton Manning told Polian that if he didn't draft him, he would kick his butt for 15 years, that was ego.  When Tom Brady trash talked Honey Badger in the Super Bowl a couple of years back, that was ego.  What about when Aaron Rodgers told Chicago Bears fans in Soldier Field "I Still own you!!" that epitomized pure, unadulterated ego.  Do you seriously argue you wouldn't want any of those guys on the Jaguars because of ego?!?

But okay.  I'll play along and assume the fans that wanted Ngakoue gone because of his ego.  What about Brackens?  Brackens didn't get in a very public and nasty post training camp practice fight with a teammate.  Brackens didn't get into any nasty public acrimonious and vituperative back and forth with the son of the owner.  There were no public demands to be traded.  Yet despite his comparatively low key demeanor, people in this fan base still wanted him gone.  They still thought he dogged it most games.  They still trashed him even when he made spectacular plays.

It's just odd to me that so much venom is reserved for the team's most productive players when this team has been so bad for so long.  To me, it makes zero sense to get rid of productive players at the most valuable positions in football, especially without viable replacements in the wings.  It doesn't make any sense to Doug Pederson, either.  Otherwise, he wouldn't have made such a big deal about retaining Josh Allen and Cam Robinson.  He knows there are tanglible and intangible benefits to retaining your best players.  But some Jaguars fans simply don't understand this.  They think we can go to the edge rusher tree and get another edge rusher.  The Jaguars have repeatedly proven with the misses on Hugh Douglas, Reggie Hayward, Aaron Kampman, Derrick Harvey, Quentin Groves, Tyson Alualu, Dante Fowler and many others that it isn't that simple.  With all of those colossal failures at that position in mind, being in a rush to rid the team of a guy like Ngakoue is foolish.

Dude, this is taking things way too personally. What word would you use to describe someone who thinks they deserve top five money or refuses to play for a particular team/coach/owner/GM?

I used "ego". Sorry if that caused you internal strife.

You lamented that many fans think the team has no use for a guy with Yan's skills. I simply stated that the problem among fans might not be the skillset, but the player. Maybe it's the price tag?

If our goal is to find a guy who can rush the passer and rush the passer alone, my thinking is that we can easily find that around the league without having to revisit the drama we encountered with Yan. I'd like the bar to be a little higher than that, but at the very least, seeking help from different players may end up more affordable, younger, or less distracting, and wouldn't that be just as good if not better?

What word would I use?  Perhaps "Productive DE...poor businessman?"  Maybe "overly reliant on an overly aggressive agent?"  Maybe "a guy who took the negotiations too personally."  Since none of us were privy to the particulars of the private aspects of the negotiations, maybe "justified in being insulted."  It's not as if the team hasn't pissed off productive players before. 

If it were a matter of price that caused the venom towards Ngakoue, why no hostility towards Christian Kirk?  He reset the market for WRs more than Ngajoue would have for DEs...and Ngakoue at least had a pro bowl on his resume.  Kirk has no such accolades and you're (not you specifically, but the plural you...i.e. you guys who trash Ngakoue) fine with him being overpaid. Under the paradigm of overpaid players/players who want to be overpaid are bad people, Kirk should be walking around in sackcloth because he accepted that contract or being tarred and feathered by the fans when he hasn't even cracked 1000 yards receiving in a season.  For perspective, fans here shrugged when DJ Chark walked out of here for a $10 million deal in Detroit, and he has a Pro Bowl and a 100 yard season in his resume.  Kirk has a deal 4 years and anywhere from 72-84 million dollar deal  You guys should be absolutely frothing at the mouth over the Kirk deal, but you aren't.  Clearly it isn't about rewarding productivity.  It's particularly confusing considering the historical Ketchman fueled aversion to the WR position many of the same fans here have had over the years.   It's even more confusing when you hear fans lament the lack of loyalty players have to teams.  Ramsey and Yan actually produced for the Jaguars at premium positions.  Kirk hasn't.  Hopefully he WILL end up being an insanely productive player for us, but he hasn't done anything for the team yet. 

As for your thinking we can "easily" find what Yan offered as a player, how has that worked out?  As I pointed out, since Brackens retired, nobody else on the team has been anywhere near as productive a pass rusher as Ngakoue was for us.  Since Ngakoue left, nobody has produced what Ngakoue has produced for us.  We've spent NINE (9) premium picks (more considering the trades to get Harvey and Groves) drafting DEs/Edge rushers and counting that did not and have not given what Ngakoue provided.  We spent:

• a 1st round pick on Renaldo Wynn.  He wound up with 13.5 sacks for us.
  
• a 1st round pick (#8 overall) on Derrick Harvey.  He wound up with 8 sacks for us
  
• 1 2nd round pick on Quentin Groves.  He had 2.5 sacks for us.
  
• a 1st round pick (#10 overall) on Tyson Alualu.  He had 17 sacks for us over two contracts
  
• a 2nd round pick on Andre Branch,  He produced 14 sacks.
  
• a 1st round pick (#3 overall)) on Dante Fowler-14 sacks for us
  
• a first round pick (#7 overall) on Josh Allen-20.5 sacks for us
  
• a first round pick on K'Lavon Chaisson0 2 sacks.
  
• a 1st round pick (#1 overall) on Travon Walker
  

Combined...between NINE players, they have combined for a total of 91 sacks.  Ngakoue wound up with 37.5 in Jacksonville and has 55.5 career sacks by himself.  If Josh Allen is to match Ngakoue's 4 year totals here, he will need a 17.5 sack season this year.

In fairness, Walker just got here.  Though I have my doubts, he may end up being a productive, impact edge rusher.

 If the team had a proven track record of finding quality edge rushers, I could understand the mindset that Ngakoue was easily replaceable.  If Yan were past in his prime, I could see moving on from him.  If the team were flat up against the cap, I get moving on from him.  NONE of those conditions were met.  Given this team's track record of monumental failure at the position, your position is wholly untenable.  If you want the bar for the position to be set higher for this team, you start by keeping productive players like Ngakoue.

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