Imagine if we took all that war money and put it towards infrastructure and education.


I bet there would even be plenty of money left over to build a humongous wall on our southern borders and patrol it like crazy.

 

You know, I really like you Anchorman, I really do.  You bring the far left point of view to any debate, and do so with style.  A typical liberal solution is to "throw more money" at a problem rather than address the problem.  Tell me, how exactly would you "invest" in education?  Does it require more money?

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Actually most of these issues are an easy fix as long as you truly want to solve the problem.  There in lies the rub.  Politicians do not want to solve the nations problems.  There is no money in that for them.

 

I agree that most politcians both on the right and the left do not want to truly solve problems.  Most of their decisions are based on what would be best for them and the next election cycle.

 

Immigration - Fine every corporation, small business or individual $10,000 dollars for every illegal immigrant they employ when they are caught for the 1st offense.  50k for the 2nd with 6 months jail time.  100k and 1 year for the 3rd.  Remove all US government assistance for illegal aliens and they will deport themselves when the jobs run dry.

 

​The immigration problem is much more complex than that.  In my opinion, first and foremost should be to stop the illegal immigration to begin with by securing the borders as well as tracking those that are here on Visas that are expired.  The next thing to do is deal with the ones that are here.

 

Tax code - fair tax

 

I would love to see the day that this happens.  Unfortunately, I don't see it happening.


 

Education - Reading, writing, arithmetic and science.  Bring back recess and gym classes.  Teach the arts and music.  Stop teaching for an end result with cookie cutter 1 size fits all formulas.  Good teachers know what each kid needs, let them do their job and for the love of heaven reduce the number of administrators at each school and give that saved money to the people in the class room.  Bring back trade schools that are tied to the high schools.  Not everyone is cut out for college.

 

I think that education reform needs to be more comprehensive and focused on today's world.  I agree with you on the trade school idea and I would even take it a step further to offer incentives to businesses that offer internships as part of education.


 

I also think that something needs to be done about the out of control cost of higher education and the student loan problems associated with that.


 

Campaign finance reform - One issue bills and no riders or attachments.  Every vote is up or down for a single issue.  If the lobbyist can't get garbage that no one would vote for in that format they will stop flooding the politicians with cash.

 

Agreed.


 

Employment - End all fair trade agreements.  Bring back tariffs and force corporations to bring those jobs they sent overseas back home.  Guess what, we have factory jobs again.  End all unions for federal employees.

 

​On this issue you and I have the wrong idea(s).  The economy in today's world is global, and I believe that free trade agreements are a necessity in order to compete in a global economy.  You can't "force" companies to bring back jobs from over seas, but you can offer incentives to do so.  We have the highest corporate tax rates in the world.

 

Regarding unions, I personally would dump them all.


 

Spending - Have businessmen with no ties to government contracts or ties do an audit of government expenditures.  Cut the fat and the duplicate programs.


 

I certainly agree with cutting the fat and duplicate programs.  Take a look at how many different "food stamp" programs are in existence today.


 

Foreign Policy - Quit borrowing money from China to give to other countries.  Bring the troops home.  If the Arab nations want to kill each other let them.  They have been fighting each other since the beginning of time.  If they bring that crap over here a missile fired from Colorado is just as accurate as one fired from 1 mile away.  We don't need troops on the grounds when a satellite photo can tell you the color of my eyes.  If we do engage in a war for any reason, let congress vote on it and if they give the go, get out of the way and let the military do their job.  Their job for the record is to kill people and break things period!  There is no such thing as a sanitary war.

 

Like it or not, the "bring the troops home" idea is never going to happen, nor should it.  When I addressed the economy earlier, I mentioned the fact that it's a global economy.  We have too many interests in too many areas around the globe that are essential to our way of life.


 

Welfare - no more corporate welfare.  Low interest business loans for viable business plans sure.  Personal welfare, if you are able bodied then in order to get a check you will go to a trade school to learn a job skill.  You get housing, food and clothes and daycare provided for two years.  If after two years you have not figured it out quonset huts and low skill jobs like mowing grass along the highways or being assigned to the jobs of the transient farm workers that left in droves over the illegal immigration policy we passed.  No more steak and lobster, you get basics like beans, rice and spam or hamburger.

 

This is something that very much needs to be reformed and reworked.  Rather than it being "assistance" it's become a way of life for far too many people.


 

National Debt - Pay that sucker off with all the savings just provided and no increases until it is payed off.  That includes the automatic increases for congress and all federal workers.  We out here in the private sector have to suck it up all the time you can too.  Oh and no more of the voodoo math.  A cut in a program is not a reduction in the increase of spending.  If I am budgeted for a 5% increase and only spend 3% I still increased what I spent last year by 3%.

 

Did I miss anything?  

 

I speak to individuals on both sides of the political spectrum and you know what?  With the exception of the extremist on both sides we all want the same things.  We have different ideas on how to get there is all.  The problem is we let the media, politicians and rhetoric divide us.

 

Peace out.  Whew!

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="copycat" data-cid="497402" data-time="1433979342">
<div>
Actually most of these issues are an easy fix as long as you truly want to solve the problem.  There in lies the rub.  Politicians do not want to solve the nations problems.  There is no money in that for them.

 

I agree that most politcians both on the right and the left do not want to truly solve problems.  Most of their decisions are based on what would be best for them and the next election cycle.

 

Immigration - Fine every corporation, small business or individual $10,000 dollars for every illegal immigrant they employ when they are caught for the 1st offense.  50k for the 2nd with 6 months jail time.  100k and 1 year for the 3rd.  Remove all US government assistance for illegal aliens and they will deport themselves when the jobs run dry.

 

​The immigration problem is much more complex than that.  In my opinion, first and foremost should be to stop the illegal immigration to begin with by securing the borders as well as tracking those that are here on Visas that are expired.  The next thing to do is deal with the ones that are here.

 

Tax code - fair tax

 

I would love to see the day that this happens.  Unfortunately, I don't see it happening.


 

Education - Reading, writing, arithmetic and science.  Bring back recess and gym classes.  Teach the arts and music.  Stop teaching for an end result with cookie cutter 1 size fits all formulas.  Good teachers know what each kid needs, let them do their job and for the love of heaven reduce the number of administrators at each school and give that saved money to the people in the class room.  Bring back trade schools that are tied to the high schools.  Not everyone is cut out for college.

 

I think that education reform needs to be more comprehensive and focused on today's world.  I agree with you on the trade school idea and I would even take it a step further to offer incentives to businesses that offer internships as part of education.


 

I also think that something needs to be done about the out of control cost of higher education and the student loan problems associated with that.


 

Campaign finance reform - One issue bills and no riders or attachments.  Every vote is up or down for a single issue.  If the lobbyist can't get garbage that no one would vote for in that format they will stop flooding the politicians with cash.

 

Agreed.


 

Employment - End all fair trade agreements.  Bring back tariffs and force corporations to bring those jobs they sent overseas back home.  Guess what, we have factory jobs again.  End all unions for federal employees.

 

​On this issue you and I have the wrong idea(s).  The economy in today's world is global, and I believe that free trade agreements are a necessity in order to compete in a global economy.  You can't "force" companies to bring back jobs from over seas, but you can offer incentives to do so.  We have the highest corporate tax rates in the world.

 

Regarding unions, I personally would dump them all.


 

Spending - Have businessmen with no ties to government contracts or ties do an audit of government expenditures.  Cut the fat and the duplicate programs.


 

I certainly agree with cutting the fat and duplicate programs.  Take a look at how many different "food stamp" programs are in existence today.


 

Foreign Policy - Quit borrowing money from China to give to other countries.  Bring the troops home.  If the Arab nations want to kill each other let them.  They have been fighting each other since the beginning of time.  If they bring that crap over here a missile fired from Colorado is just as accurate as one fired from 1 mile away.  We don't need troops on the grounds when a satellite photo can tell you the color of my eyes.  If we do engage in a war for any reason, let congress vote on it and if they give the go, get out of the way and let the military do their job.  Their job for the record is to kill people and break things period!  There is no such thing as a sanitary war.

 

Like it or not, the "bring the troops home" idea is never going to happen, nor should it.  When I addressed the economy earlier, I mentioned the fact that it's a global economy.  We have too many interests in too many areas around the globe that are essential to our way of life.


 

Welfare - no more corporate welfare.  Low interest business loans for viable business plans sure.  Personal welfare, if you are able bodied then in order to get a check you will go to a trade school to learn a job skill.  You get housing, food and clothes and daycare provided for two years.  If after two years you have not figured it out quonset huts and low skill jobs like mowing grass along the highways or being assigned to the jobs of the transient farm workers that left in droves over the illegal immigration policy we passed.  No more steak and lobster, you get basics like beans, rice and spam or hamburger.

 

This is something that very much needs to be reformed and reworked.  Rather than it being "assistance" it's become a way of life for far too many people.


 

National Debt - Pay that sucker off with all the savings just provided and no increases until it is payed off.  That includes the automatic increases for congress and all federal workers.  We out here in the private sector have to suck it up all the time you can too.  Oh and no more of the voodoo math.  A cut in a program is not a reduction in the increase of spending.  If I am budgeted for a 5% increase and only spend 3% I still increased what I spent last year by 3%.

 

Did I miss anything?  

 

I speak to individuals on both sides of the political spectrum and you know what?  With the exception of the extremist on both sides we all want the same things.  We have different ideas on how to get there is all.  The problem is we let the media, politicians and rhetoric divide us.

 

Peace out.  Whew!

 

</div>
</blockquote>
Not much difference in opinions as far as I can see.  We could iron the minor issues we differ on over a pitcher of beer and a plate of wings, and be back home before Game of Thrones.  This solutions are not that complex, unless you let politics get in the way.

 

BTW, I took the same root you did to success.  College drop out, enlisted in the USN as an ET. Gave the government 6 years of my life in return for a viable skill in electronics.  Saw much of Europe and the Middle East, parts of Africa and the Caribbean. Squared off and thumped our chest against the Iranian and Soviet navies a time or two. Turned that experience into a career and a damn good life.  I highly recommend it to every individual graduating high school.  

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Not much difference in opinions as far as I can see.  We could iron the minor issues we differ on over a pitcher of beer and a plate of wings, and be back home before Game of Thrones.  This solutions are not that complex, unless you let politics get in the way.

 

BTW, I took the same root you did to success.  College drop out, enlisted in the USN as an ET. Gave the government 6 years of my life in return for a viable skill in electronics.  Saw much of Europe and the Middle East, parts of Africa and the Caribbean. Squared off and thumped our chest against the Iranian and Soviet navies a time or two. Turned that experience into a career and a damn good life.  I highly recommend it to every individual graduating high school.  

 

Well brother let me offer you my "thanks for your service" and know that it came from the heart.  I don't at all see your knowledge, experience or expertise as being a product of "government assistance".  Rather, I see someone that is successful while taking an "alternate path" to success.  That's what "living the American Dream" is all about.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

The so-called "military industrial complex" is actually the majority of the job description of those in Congress.  It's purpose is not about a "jobs program" and it is not a "massive jobs and economic stimulus program".  The purpose is for the common defense.  Peace through power is a proven policy that has been discarded by the current administration, and it's being replaced by a "apologize for our country's greatness" policy.  Just look at what President Obama had to say in his first inauguration speech.  Rather than address our allies with assurance that we would continue to stand with and support them, he chose to address our enemies.  Here is what he said specifically to our enemies in the Middle East.

 

 

That kind of policy has sure worked out well hasn't it?  Our allies as well as our enemies look at that and perceive weakness rather than strength.  Why is it that Putin decided to invade Ukraine?  Why is it that China and North Korea are becoming more aggressive militarily?  Why is it that Iran continues to develop nuclear weapons?  Why is it that brutal dictators and groups are over-running middle eastern countries?

 

Yet the military is what is suffering the largest cuts in history.

 

So what I am saying is, don't give me this business that I have achieved what I did because I got "more than a little help" from our government, and don't tell me that the military is a "jobs program".  That is pretty insulting to our men and women in uniform as well as our veterans.

 

It is supposed to be about our common defense, and to that end our military has no peer. But when you look at the lobbying efforts around base closure procedures, or money poured into unnecessary weapons or equipment programs, please don't try to tell me it's all about our defense.

 

Why do you think Rep. Charlie Bennett had a stranglehold on his job so many years? He brought jobs to his district. He kept the bases here open.

 

Don't throw that smokescreen of insult in my face. I respect those who serve more than you may realize. Military personnel are but a fraction of the jobs created by the military industrial complex, which is a term coined by none other than Dwight Eisenhower, who saw what was happening with the military and warned against it.

 

As in all things, if you want answers to what is going on, follow the money.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

You know, I really like you Anchorman, I really do.  You bring the far left point of view to any debate, and do so with style.  A typical liberal solution is to "throw more money" at a problem rather than address the problem.  Tell me, how exactly would you "invest" in education?  Does it require more money?

 

 

Well, what's not to like?  LOL.  You seem a decent fellow as well JagIbelieve.  We have completely different world views, but that doesn't mean we should be salty towards one another.  And you keep things level headed, for the most part.  Plus it's good to hear the your perspective, and I respect it while I mostly disagree with it.

 

With that said, money is how most things are fixed...  I mean, imagine if we cut funding to the military and told them to keep policing all the world.  It wouldn't work.  I think it's weird that we want our programs to do so much with so little funding, but we basically give our military a blank check. 

 

You put money into a system, you get highly motivated folks that have all the tools necessary to be the best.  You cut funding and you get what you pay for...  That's been my experience.  Yes there are outliers to my thinking.  But if you look at the big picture, investment is what drives success.  

---

Well, what's not to like?  LOL.  You seem a decent fellow as well JagIbelieve.  We have completely different world views, but that doesn't mean we should be salty towards one another.  And you keep things level headed, for the most part.  Plus it's good to hear the your perspective, and I respect it while I mostly disagree with it.

 

With that said, money is how most things are fixed...  I mean, imagine if we cut funding to the military and told them to keep policing all the world.  It wouldn't work.  I think it's weird that we want our programs to do so much with so little funding, but we basically give our military a blank check. 

 

You put money into a system, you get highly motivated folks that have all the tools necessary to be the best.  You cut funding and you get what you pay for...  That's been my experience.  Yes there are outliers to my thinking.  But if you look at the big picture, investment is what drives success.  

 

The issue, as we've talked about before, isn't that there isn't "enough" money. The spending curve for public education outpaces almost everything else that we measure, but the results have been flat. The flat line is deceptive though, because wealthy districts improve while poor ones are declining, but much of that is about the student's home lives more so than the quality of the educational opportunity. Essentially, the problem is that it's very very difficult to fix education if we expect the schools to be the solution. The HOMES and FAMILIES are the real answer.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

What really matters to me.


Make the federal debt sustainable. We don't have to actually balance the budget to do that, but we do have to narrow the gap between taxes and spending without killing the economy.


Protect the environment.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M


As far as the size of government, there has to be a balance between your freedom and my freedom. That's what laws and regulations are for: to keep your freedom from infringing on my freedom or someone else's freedom.


And last but not least, corruption. Most of us would agree that money has corrupted politics. The problem is, I can't see any solution that doesn't involve limits on free speech. Because money can buy speech: airtime and advertising.


Simple? No. All of you who think the solutions are simple are delusional.

---

The issue, as we've talked about before, isn't that there isn't "enough" money. The spending curve for public education outpaces almost everything else that we measure, but the results have been flat. The flat line is deceptive though, because wealthy districts improve while poor ones are declining, but much of that is about the student's home lives more so than the quality of the educational opportunity. Essentially, the problem is that it's very very difficult to fix education if we expect the schools to be the solution. The HOMES and FAMILIES are the real answer.

 

Winner, winner chicken dinner.  Just look at the statistics regarding children from single parent homes against children in two parent households.

 

Now we also need to face a few other facts.  Most single parent homes are the product of poor upbringing or yet, other children that come from single parent homes.  Most come from a life of "poverty".  It's a cycle.  It's more likely than not, that a young girl born and raised by single mother will herself become a single mother, and most likely at a young age.  It's also more likely that this hypothetical girl was raised in poverty and will herself, end up in poverty her whole life.

 

This isn't confined to any certain racial group.  In the inner cities it trends more towards blacks.  In the Midwest and the south it trends towards whites.  In the southwest it trends towards Latinos and native Americans.  The one common denominator is the lack of a strong and loving family.  So how to we address this and break that cycle?

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Well, what's not to like?  LOL.  You seem a decent fellow as well JagIbelieve.  We have completely different world views, but that doesn't mean we should be salty towards one another.  And you keep things level headed, for the most part.  Plus it's good to hear the your perspective, and I respect it while I mostly disagree with it.

 

With that said, money is how most things are fixed...  I mean, imagine if we cut funding to the military and told them to keep policing all the world.  It wouldn't work.  I think it's weird that we want our programs to do so much with so little funding, but we basically give our military a blank check. 

 

You put money into a system, you get highly motivated folks that have all the tools necessary to be the best.  You cut funding and you get what you pay for...  That's been my experience.  Yes there are outliers to my thinking.  But if you look at the big picture, investment is what drives success.  

 

I think that I might have found something that you and I can agree on, that being your final comment "investment is what drives success".

 

However, our current education system is broken and is one of the biggest "investments" that we currently make.  Your solution is to "invest" more money in it.  Why "invest" more money into a broken system?  How about if we looked for ways to "fix" the broken system rather than dump more money towards it?

 

Public education is a huge mess right now.  Why?  How do we fix and address the "why" of it?

 

College tuition is out of reach for most people unless they get themselves into enormous debt (student loans).  Why?

 

I'm not a fan of "throw money at the problem and it will get fixed".  We've been doing that far too long.  Something needs to change.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

It is supposed to be about our common defense, and to that end our military has no peer. But when you look at the lobbying efforts around base closure procedures, or money poured into unnecessary weapons or equipment programs, please don't try to tell me it's all about our defense.

 

Why do you think Rep. Charlie Bennett had a stranglehold on his job so many years? He brought jobs to his district. He kept the bases here open.

 

Don't throw that smokescreen of insult in my face. I respect those who serve more than you may realize. Military personnel are but a fraction of the jobs created by the military industrial complex, which is a term coined by none other than Dwight Eisenhower, who saw what was happening with the military and warned against it.

 

As in all things, if you want answers to what is going on, follow the money.

 

Regarding our military "has no peer", it's not as people believe.  Our military is weakened so much that countries pose a very real threat to us and our allies.  The militaries of other countries are equipped well enough to defeat our current capability.  As an example, an "outdated" Russian submarine can launch a nuke right off of our coastline without ever being detected in advance.

 

I'll agree that there is certainly "lobbying" when it comes to base closures and it certainly is about money and the economy.  Many cities very existence depends on the presence of a military base.  The people that a base brings in is vital to business big and small.

 

Money poured into "unnecessary weapons or equipment programs" shows your lack of knowledge regarding why these programs are in place.  Much of the military thrives on, trains on and does it's job using outdated technology.  Updating and bringing this technology into the 21st century is an important thing for us to remain a "super power". 

 

So yes, it's all about the common defense.

 

And it's not a "smokescreen".  I have pretty thick skin and rarely get offended or insulted, but your comment that the military is a "jobs program" and that's what the "military industrial complex is all about" really offended me.  But what offended me more is when you claimed that the military is "a massive jobs and economic stimulus program, mixed in with corporate welfare".

 

I didn't serve my country under some "jobs and economic stimulus program".  I served my country honorably because it was the right thing to do at that particular time in my life.  When 9/11 happened I even tried to go back because I believed that our military needed every able bodied person.

 

Many like you who (understandably) have not served have no idea what it's about and what it means.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

......and don't tell me that the military is a "jobs program".  That is pretty insulting to our men and women in uniform as well as our veterans.

This. 

---

What really matters to me.


Make the federal debt sustainable. We don't have to actually balance the budget to do that, but we do have to narrow the gap between taxes and spending without killing the economy.


Protect the environment.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M


As far as the size of government, there has to be a balance between your freedom and my freedom. That's what laws and regulations are for: to keep your freedom from infringing on my freedom or someone else's freedom.


And last but not least, corruption. Most of us would agree that money has corrupted politics. The problem is, I can't see any solution that doesn't involve limits on free speech. Because money can buy speech: airtime and advertising.

Simple? No. All of you who think the solutions are simple are delusional.

No, the solutions are simple.  There will pain and suffering but the solutions are easy.  The problem is few are willing to endure the pain and suffering to make things right.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

No, the solutions are simple. There will pain and suffering but the solutions are easy. The problem is few are willing to endure the pain and suffering to make things right.

Dismantling the federal government is not a solution... :-)

---

Dismantling the federal government is not a solution... :-)

 

I don't think that anyone is calling for the dismantling of the federal government... except maybe Eric.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Dismantling the federal government is not a solution... :-)

Who is suggesting that?  The federal government has its place.  Unfortunately, it has grown to the point where it's a bloated, inefficient bureaucracy that is incapable of delivering even the most basic functions effectively.   

 

Dismantling pieces of it?  Absolutely.  Start with the Department of Education.  Since it was created in 1980, the education system in the US has been in steady decline vs. other nations.  With the mandated testing and curriculum forced down from the federal bureaucracy to the states, that's a trend that's not going to stop any time soon unless something is done.  Abolishing the department would be a good start, especially since this country managed to survive for more than 200 years without it, and we somehow managed to be at or near the top in reading, mathematics, and science back in the day.  As the federal tentacles have gotten more imbedded in education, the system has become a mess. 

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I don't think that anyone is calling for the dismantling of the federal government... except maybe Eric.

Hey I only dream of dismantling it on here I just advocate rolling it back lol

---

While I agree that education is certainly important, I don't put it on my list of priorities because it should not be a federal government matter.  In my opinion the Department of Education should go away.

 

That shouldn't make it any less of a priority.  It is most important because it'll shape our future.  Less educated, worse future.  Better educated, better future.  

 


Country



AVG



PTS



1.   South Korea



14.4



72



2.   Japan  



14.2



71



3.   United Kingdom  



11.6



58



4   Singapore   



10.4



52



5.   Canada 



10.0



50



6.   Netherlands 



10.0



50



7.   Russia 



8.8



44



8.   Germany



8.2



41



9.   Finland 



8.2



41



10. Israel  



7.2



36



11. Denmark 



7.0



35



12. China 



6.6



33



13. Hong Kong



6.6



33



14. Norway 



6.4



32



15. Ireland 



6.4



32



16.  Iceland 



6.4



32



17. Spain  



5.8



29



18.  Switzerland



5.8



29



19.  Slovenia



5.8



29



20. USA 



5.6



28


 

 

It is the number 1 issue facing us today and number 1 issue in determining our future.  We should look at what the top 5 our doing and emulate.  

---

Sorry, that didn't come out the way I pasted it, but none the less, I'm not sure how education isn't number 1 on more peoples list.

---

Sorry, that didn't come out the way I pasted it, but none the less, I'm not sure how education isn't number 1 on more peoples list.

Because a lot of people want free market solutions to everything except the military and police.  Personally not a fan of the free market myself.  I don't believe it's a be all end all of solutions.

---

I was wrong about Trent Baalke.