That is such a random shot at nobody in particular, it begs for specifics.

Bon Jag pretty much nails it.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Its like Global Warming, it only matters to the Left when it allows them to look down on/feel smug about/control other people. Just watch the responses in this thread for the case study.

It's interesting how people at odds with the facts often argue what others must be thinking. Speaks to the disconnect between logic and facts in their own minds. Logic dictates the conclusion from the facts; it has nothing to do with motives like 'control' fyi.

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It's interesting how people at odds with the facts often argue what others must be thinking. Speaks to the disconnect between logic and facts in their own minds. Logic dictates the conclusion from the facts; it has nothing to do with motives like 'control' fyi.

 

It doesn't take much to see the facts at play. When it comes to wind power it's the NIMBYs in left-leaning areas that insist the farms be placed in flyover country where they can't see them. Like all environmental concerns they insist that the others bear the burden while they continue their lifestyles.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It doesn't take much to see the facts at play. When it comes to wind power it's the NIMBYs in left-leaning areas that insist the farms be placed in flyover country where they can't see them. Like all environmental concerns they insist that the others bear the burden while they continue their lifestyles.

 

Or the states in the midwest US are those with the most wind power potential.

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;

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Its like Global Warming, it only matters to the Left when it allows them to look down on/feel smug about/control other people. Just watch the responses in this thread for the case study.

Says the guy who lists their location as " Someplace Warm"

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Blakes Life Matters

It doesn't take much to see the facts at play. When it comes to wind power it's the NIMBYs in left-leaning areas that insist the farms be placed in flyover country where they can't see them. Like all environmental concerns they insist that the others bear the burden while they continue their lifestyles.

 

As it pertains to the article, there are no birds or bats in the blue states?

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

As it pertains to the article, there are no birds or bats in the blue states?

Oh, there's lots of batty people in blue states.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Says the guy who lists their location as " Someplace Warm"

That, uhhh, matters how?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Or the states in the midwest US are those with the most wind power potential.

The highest potential locations are the Northeast and Northwest coasts, but the NIMBYs there put a stop to it years ago.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Also didn't Duke Energy Renewables pay $1,000,000 after being found guilty of killing several birds in their wind turbines?

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

The highest potential locations are the Northeast and Northwest coasts, but the NIMBYs there put a stop to it years ago.

 

While those might be ideal locations, one of the other locations would be the top of the mountains in Hawaii on Oahu.  Go up there any time of year and the wind is always blowing.

 

The biggest problem is wind generation is probably the least efficient means of producing usable electricity.  The cost of building, installing and maintaining a wind generation facility at a profit just about exceeds the yield.  That's why there are government subsidies that go into these projects.  Nobody is going to do this for free.

 

A better alternative is to upgrade the current infrastructure.  "Clean" energy can be produced in much better ways, even if it's not "green".  Think about this.  How much natural gas is burned off and lost during the oil refining process?  What if infrastructure was put in place where people could convert and/or purchase vehicles that run on natural gas and not have a limited means of re-fueling their vehicle?  What if power plants were built and/or converted to use natural gas rather than say coal?

 

The problem that you run into is that natural gas is not considered "green" so a program designed to use a by-product of refining oil is "shot down" by those that prefer "green" energy.

 

The bottom line is, "green" energy is not efficient and not a means to power a country as large as the U.S.  Solar has come a long way, but it's still not as efficient as some other means of producing electricity.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

While those might be ideal locations, one of the other locations would be the top of the mountains in Hawaii on Oahu. Go up there any time of year and the wind is always blowing.


The biggest problem is wind generation is probably the least efficient means of producing usable electricity. The cost of building, installing and maintaining a wind generation facility at a profit just about exceeds the yield. That's why there are government subsidies that go into these projects. Nobody is going to do this for free.


A better alternative is to upgrade the current infrastructure. "Clean" energy can be produced in much better ways, even if it's not "green". Think about this. How much natural gas is burned off and lost during the oil refining process? What if infrastructure was put in place where people could convert and/or purchase vehicles that run on natural gas and not have a limited means of re-fueling their vehicle? What if power plants were built and/or converted to use natural gas rather than say coal?


The problem that you run into is that natural gas is not considered "green" so a program designed to use a by-product of refining oil is "shot down" by those that prefer "green" energy.


The bottom line is, "green" energy is not efficient and not a means to power a country as large as the U.S. Solar has come a long way, but it's still not as efficient as some other means of producing electricity.

I agree, let's do whatever we have to in order to make energy production better. Cheaper, cleaner, and more easily available energy is one of the keys to moving the whole world forward.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

While those might be ideal locations, one of the other locations would be the top of the mountains in Hawaii on Oahu.  Go up there any time of year and the wind is always blowing.

 

The biggest problem is wind generation is probably the least efficient means of producing usable electricity.  The cost of building, installing and maintaining a wind generation facility at a profit just about exceeds the yield.  That's why there are government subsidies that go into these projects.  Nobody is going to do this for free.

 

A better alternative is to upgrade the current infrastructure.  "Clean" energy can be produced in much better ways, even if it's not "green".  Think about this.  How much natural gas is burned off and lost during the oil refining process?  What if infrastructure was put in place where people could convert and/or purchase vehicles that run on natural gas and not have a limited means of re-fueling their vehicle?  What if power plants were built and/or converted to use natural gas rather than say coal?

 

The problem that you run into is that natural gas is not considered "green" so a program designed to use a by-product of refining oil is "shot down" by those that prefer "green" energy.

 

The bottom line is, "green" energy is not efficient and not a means to power a country as large as the U.S.  Solar has come a long way, but it's still not as efficient as some other means of producing electricity.

If you make cleaner energy cheaper to produce it would lead to those energy companies putting more research into even cleaner methods. I'm all for cleaner while still researching green, lot's of liberals are not. This is an instance of perfect being the enemy of good. 

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If you make cleaner energy cheaper to produce it would lead to those energy companies putting more research into even cleaner methods. I'm all for cleaner while still researching green, lot's of liberals are not. This is an instance of perfect being the enemy of good.

Sensible.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Sensible.

See? We can make this work we just need some counseling  :teehee:

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One of the main reasons energy is so damn expensive is, there has not been a refinery built since the 70's. Why you ask? Because it takes a minimum of 10 frigging years just to get all the permits needed to build one. And who wants to go through all that to possibly NOT get the permit to build (I blame the out dated EPA) If we could stream line the permit process, build new more efficient refineries, explore for our own gas/oil/coal (Bill Clinton put an entire area that produces clean coal off limits) then we'll see cleaner, more efficient and more reliable energy.

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Instead of a sign that says "Do Not Disturb" I need one that says "Already Disturbed Proceed With Caution."

I agree, let's do whatever we have to in order to make energy production better. Cheaper, cleaner, and more easily available energy is one of the keys to moving the whole world forward.

 

 

If you make cleaner energy cheaper to produce it would lead to those energy companies putting more research into even cleaner methods. I'm all for cleaner while still researching green, lot's of liberals are not. This is an instance of perfect being the enemy of good. 

 

Hence the difference in where we should go and where our current "leadership" wants to take us.  Rather than doing what would make our system better, our current "leadership" forces us to use "green" energy rather than currently available efficient energy.  That's where the money has been flowing and that's where money is being wasted (Solindra).  It's not about doing what is best, it's all about pandering to the "green energy" crowd (the far left).  It's all about politics.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Hence the difference in where we should go and where our current "leadership" wants to take us.  Rather than doing what would make our system better, our current "leadership" forces us to use "green" energy rather than currently available efficient energy.  That's where the money has been flowing and that's where money is being wasted (Solindra).  It's not about doing what is best, it's all about pandering to the "green energy" crowd (the far left).  It's all about politics.

Agreed.  The current stuff can be done cleaner and more efficiently and as long as solid research is done into making alternative energy a plausible thing than absolutely let's do it. I think some on either side view it as a winner take all battle. That's bad, we need a bridge. 

 

I imagine we will disagree on being in favor governments grants for pure R&D, which I think is a very good thing as the market is less inclined to invest in alternative technologies unless it's guaranteed to make short term profits but I also don't think the gov should be subsidizing businesses of any kind. If you can't function as a business without taking subsidies then you should not be in business, IMO. 

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One of the main reasons energy is so damn expensive is, there has not been a refinery built since the 70's. Why you ask? Because it takes a minimum of 10 frigging years just to get all the permits needed to build one. And who wants to go through all that to possibly NOT get the permit to build (I blame the out dated EPA) If we could stream line the permit process, build new more efficient refineries, explore for our own gas/oil/coal (Bill Clinton put an entire area that produces clean coal off limits) then we'll see cleaner, more efficient and more reliable energy.

 

Don't get me started on the EPA.  That to me is a government hindrance (bureaucracy) that should go away along with a few others.  There should be no need to have to wait 10 years (if true) to build a new refinery.

 

However, part of the point of my previous posts is that current existing refineries can be upgraded to produce natural gas.  I would rather see my tax dollars go to work either upgrading existing refineries and infrastructure or build newer more modern refineries that harness the "waste" or by-product of the refining process (natural gas).  Use that harnessed potential to either power vehicles or possibly a power plant.  It's not "green", but it's cleaner energy and a more efficient use of what is being done.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Don't get me started on the EPA.  That to me is a government hindrance (bureaucracy) that should go away along with a few others.  There should be no need to have to wait 10 years (if true) to build a new refinery.

 

However, part of the point of my previous posts is that current existing refineries can be upgraded to produce natural gas.  I would rather see my tax dollars go to work either upgrading existing refineries and infrastructure or build newer more modern refineries that harness the "waste" or by-product of the refining process (natural gas).  Use that harnessed potential to either power vehicles or possibly a power plant.  It's not "green", but it's cleaner energy and a more efficient use of what is being done.

I had heard that there was a Nationwide moratorium on new refineries that's been in place for a long time. Is this not the case?

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