You are correct, numbers don't lie. The analysis of those numbers can. For instance, stating that because police brutality against blacks is on a down trend means that the problem is not that important anymore would be a falsity.


The issue is still important, and is pervasive enough that it occurs through the country on a regular basis...

 

Actually, the number of deaths among a 300 million population is statisically insignificant and in no way "regular."

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You are correct, numbers don't lie. The analysis of those numbers can. For instance, stating that because police brutality against blacks is on a down trend means that the problem is not that important anymore would be a falsity.


The issue is still important, and is pervasive enough that it occurs through the country on a regular basis...

 

Regular basis compared to where? Europe? What parts of Europe? China? Canada? India? Russia? South America? Mexico? Crime statistics have decreased by nearly half in most categories in the United States over the past 25 years. Crime statistics are still relatively high (amongst minorities, white crime in the US is proportionate with white crime in Europe) compared to most parts of Europe, but to say this happens on a regular basis is a definite overstatement. The media would have you believe it does, but...come on its the media. It is their job to further instigate the event and make a quick buck on the shockwave it creates.

---

Are you talking about the police or the people being killed by police?

1.  For every action there is a reaction.

 

2. Why does it have to be an "or"?

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Yeah... just dont break the law and the police wont kill you... solid argument. 

---

In this thread, people are debating whether or not a proportionate amount of blacks are killed by whites, while others are defending cops killing citizens. Some people are missing the point that people are being killed and others seem to have a bit of hate inside them. 

---

Yeah... just dont break the law and the police wont kill you... solid argument. 

It's not even true.  Many people get arrested for crimes they never committed.  

---

I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

It's not even true. Many people get arrested for crimes they never committed.

Which is true. But In a lot of the cases though, some of these people run when they're about to be detained. That's the absolute worst you can do. You're basically telling the police that you're guilty of something and need to be taken into custody asap.. If you're truly innocent, dont run and then you have to rely on the court system to set you free, which can also be pretty risky though. But running from the police is the absolute worst you can do for yourself. These police are taught to always have the upper hand. They try to detain you and you resist, they have holds to make you submit. You fight them, they pull tazers, you pull a knife or threaten harm, they pull a gun. That's the way it should be. It's not supposed to be an even fight against the police..

---

Which is true. But In a lot of the cases though, some of these people run when they're about to be detained. That's the absolute worst you can do. You're basically telling the police that you're guilty of something and need to be taken into custody asap.. If you're truly innocent, dont run and then you have to rely on the court system to set you free, which can also be pretty risky though. But running from the police is the absolute worst you can do for yourself. These police are taught to always have the upper hand. They try to detain you and you resist, they have holds to make you submit. You fight them, they pull tazers, you pull a knife or threaten harm, they pull a gun. That's the way it should be. It's not supposed to be an even fight against the police..

 

People wouldn't run if they felt they could trust the police.    In the case of Freddy Gray he ran before they even started pursuing them for anything.  I know that I have trouble trusting police, and I'm a white man.  I can only imagine a black man would have more trouble trusting police.

---

I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

People wouldn't run if they felt they could trust the police. In the case of Freddy Gray he ran before they even started pursuing them. I know that I have trouble trusting police, and I'm a white man. I can only imagine a black man would have more trouble trusting police.

Trust them or not, running causes way more problems than staying and they know that..

---

It's not even true.  Many people get arrested for crimes they never committed.  

 

Many people? How many? What crimes? Do you have any supporting evidence to back your claim?

 

Stop making excuses for criminals.

---

Many people? How many? What crimes? Do you have any supporting evidence to back your claim?

 

Stop making excuses for criminals.

Innocent until proven guilty.


Guess that concept is a bit hard for you to understand.

---

I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Which is true. But In a lot of the cases though, some of these people run when they're about to be detained. That's the absolute worst you can do. You're basically telling the police that you're guilty of something and need to be taken into custody asap.. If you're truly innocent, dont run and then you have to rely on the court system to set you free, which can also be pretty risky though. But running from the police is the absolute worst you can do for yourself. These police are taught to always have the upper hand. They try to detain you and you resist, they have holds to make you submit. You fight them, they pull tazers, you pull a knife or threaten harm, they pull a gun. That's the way it should be. It's not supposed to be an even fight against the police..

 

Ideally police would follow protocol and it'd be nice and neat the way you spelled it out. But it's not. And in my experience police unnecessarily escalate situations.

---

Ideally police would follow protocol and it'd be nice and neat the way you spelled it out. But it's not. And in my experience police unnecessarily escalate situations.

That's what they're trained to do.. Whether some of them do or do not follow that protocol is a different story.

---

People wouldn't run if they felt they could trust the police.    In the case of Freddy Gray he ran before they even started pursuing them for anything.  I know that I have trouble trusting police, and I'm a white man.  I can only imagine a black man would have more trouble trusting police.

How many of these incidents happened while the person was either fighting with the cops, or running from the cops as opposed to not doing either of those things? How many police shooting and or deaths in custody happen when the person being arrested surrendered peacefully?


You can say you don't trust the cops all you like, but I'd trust the cops more not to kill me by not giving them an excuse to want to do so in the first place.

---

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Innocent until proven guilty.


Guess that concept is a bit hard for you to understand.

Does that mean that no one should be arrested ever because they are all innocent until it's proved otherwise?

---

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

How many of these incidents happened while the person was either fighting with the cops, or running from the cops as opposed to not doing either of those things? How many police shooting and or deaths in custody happen when the person being arrested surrendered peacefully?


You can say you don't trust the cops all you like, but I'd trust the cops more not to kill me by not giving them an excuse to want to do so in the first place.

 

So you're saying the cops shouldn't try to give people a reason to actually trust them?  Because hey!  As long as you surrender, you (probably) won't be shot!  (you might mysteriously die in a van though)

 

 

Does that mean that no one should be arrested ever because they are all innocent until it's proved otherwise?

No, but it does mean that arrest records are pretty meaningless in the long of it.   Being arrested does NOT  make you a criminal.

---

I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

People wouldn't run if they felt they could trust the police.    In the case of Freddy Gray he ran before they even started pursuing them for anything.  I know that I have trouble trusting police, and I'm a white man.  I can only imagine a black man would have more trouble trusting police.

People also run because they have something to hide.  In the case of Freddy Gray, he was not even a suspect until he ran (according the reports I have seen).  His actions however did draw the attention of the police in his direction in the 1st place.  His distrust of the police might have something to do with his lengthy rap sheep perhaps?  

 

Look I do not condone what happened to this young man one bit.  Furthermore if Gray was as speculated given a "rough ride" then the officers in the van should face trial for involuntary manslaughter.  Regardless he was not some innocent bystander chosen at random for a ride to the police station.  

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

So you're saying the cops shouldn't try to give people a reason to actually trust them? Because hey! As long as you surrender, you (probably) won't be shot! (you might mysteriously die in a van though)



No, but it does mean that arrest records are pretty meaningless in the long of it. Being arrested does NOT make you a criminal.

Right.. Because ALL police officers are crooked and shouldn't be trusted. Let's not act like that's the actual case. A couple of rotten apples does NOT spoil the bunch.. This country would be the old west Tombstone without them and the vast majority of these officers are doing their jobs to the best of their ability and are honest about it.. Black criminals do NOT represent black people in general and crooked cops do NOT represent our country's police force.

---

How many of these incidents happened while the person was either fighting with the cops, or running from the cops as opposed to not doing either of those things? How many police shooting and or deaths in custody happen when the person being arrested surrendered peacefully?


You can say you don't trust the cops all you like, but I'd trust the cops more not to kill me by not giving them an excuse to want to do so in the first place.

Outside of pulling a weapon on a cop this should never, ever be acceptable. It sounds insane that people have to think this way. 

---

Being arrested does NOT  make you a criminal.

 

Hey, you are right!

 

Maryland law makes it illegal to "wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind" -- including switchblades -- "concealed on or about the person."

 

Freddie Gray was carrying a concealed switchblade and fled from Maryland officers. The arrest record shows he was arrested on a weapons charge. 

---