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MalabarJag · 04-17-2015, 09:57 PM

Quote:Simply put, there's no reason to prefer anyone to him if he's available. There's no one close to his talent if he's still on the board there. You can disagree, but understand that's not compelling enough to convince me otherwise, given the information that's out there.

Where would Leonard Williams play?

Do the Jags play him at LDE ahead of a guy they just signed for four years at $8.5M per year? I said at the time that I thought the Odrick signing was a mistake with Leonard Williams the likely BAP, Bryant not all that bad, and Alualu recently re-signed, but that's water under the bridge now. Barring a total disaster, Odrick is going to be a starter.

Do you play him at 3-T ahead of Marks? Maybe Marks won't recover from his ACL tear, but most players do these days. The likely scenario for Marks is that he'll have a poor 2015 but be back to full strength by 2016.

Do you move him to LEO? It could be done but his body is not that of an outside speed rusher. Would he be a better LEO than Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Gregory?

Do you make him the 1-T instead of Miller? He really doesn't fit that role either.

If the Jags can trade down with the Jets (assuming they want Williams) and pick up an extra #2 while still getting at least the 2nd best LEO prospect (and there's no certainty which one is best anyway) then Caldwell shouldn't waste an extra second in completing the trade.

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

SuperJville · 04-17-2015, 11:56 PM

Quote:Where would Leonard Williams play?

Do the Jags play him at LDE ahead of a guy they just signed for four years at $8.5M per year? I said at the time that I thought the Odrick signing was a mistake with Leonard Williams the likely BAP, Bryant not all that bad, and Alualu recently re-signed, but that's water under the bridge now. Barring a total disaster, Odrick is going to be a starter.

Do you play him at 3-T ahead of Marks? Maybe Marks won't recover from his ACL tear, but most players do these days. The likely scenario for Marks is that he'll have a poor 2015 but be back to full strength by 2016.

Do you move him to LEO? It could be done but his body is not that of an outside speed rusher. Would he be a better LEO than Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Gregory?

Do you make him the 1-T instead of Miller? He really doesn't fit that role either.

If the Jags can trade down with the Jets (assuming they want Williams) and pick up an extra #2 while still getting at least the 2nd best LEO prospect (and there's no certainty which one is best anyway) then Caldwell shouldn't waste an extra second in completing the trade.

With how much we rotate, he could line up as the 1-T, the 3T, or the 5T and get plenty of snaps. Move him around and create mismatches. Have a slow guard? Play him at 1T or 3T on passing downs. Need to stop the run? Play him at RDE.

**Jags02** · 04-18-2015, 04:17 AM

Quote:According to draft value charts(for what you put into them), the Jets would have to give up their #6 pick, as well as their 2nd round and 4th round pick for this trade to be even.

Agreed. If Fowler or Beasley... or maybe even Ray... happen to be there at #6, you take him. Otherwise I can see another trade down possible. That is, the Jaguars trade the #6 and their #36 for the Browns #12, #19 and their later fourth round pick. In all the Jaguars would end up with the following picks in the first rour rounds...

Round 1 - #12 and #19

Round 2 - #37

Round 3 - #255

Round 4 - #103, #111 and #115

'02

The Real Marty · 04-18-2015, 04:35 AM

Suppose the draft goes like this:

1) Winston

2) Williams

Now someone wants to trade up to #3 for Mariota.

If we trade out of #3 for someone wanting Mariota, the remaining players are:

Fowler

Beasley

White

Cooper

You get the idea.   All those guys could be justified at pick #3 if we had not traded. And at least 2 of them will still be on the board at pick #6.

So here's my question.

Suppose the Jets were not offering their 2nd round pick.   Suppose they were offering their 3rd this year and their 3rd next year, for example.

Would you do the deal?   I would.   Because if you have Fowler, Beasley, White, and Cooper rated about equally, you'd be getting something for nothing.

Would you do that deal?

Jagwired'd · 04-18-2015, 05:10 AM

I think it'd be more beneficial for hte Jaguars to trade all the way back to #20 for a king's ransom.

THERE IS A SKELETON INSIDE OF YOU.

RIGHT NOW. THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

**Jags02** · 04-18-2015, 05:39 AM

Quote:Suppose the draft goes like this:

1) Winston

2) Williams

Now someone wants to trade up to #3 for Mariota.

If we trade out of #3 for someone wanting Mariota, the remaining players are:

Fowler

Beasley

White

Cooper

You get the idea.   All those guys could be justified at pick #3 if we had not traded. And at least 2 of them will still be on the board at pick #6.

So here's my question.

Suppose the Jets were not offering their 2nd round pick.   Suppose they were offering their 3rd this year and their 3rd next year, for example.

Would you do the deal?   I would.   Because if you have Fowler, Beasley, White, and Cooper rated about equally, you'd be getting something for nothing.

Would you do that deal?

No. The general rule of thumb is that a pick one round higher in next year's draft is equivalent to a pick this year. So in lieu of the Jets 2nd round pick, I'd accept their 1st round pick from next year.

'02

FgallosJAGS · 04-18-2015, 09:02 AM

Either way you look at it, our first 3 picks should be 3 of these 4 positions: a) LEO b) RB c) FS d) OL. I still don't see the WR happening. Maybe it's just me but we have holes on our team and Dave just picked 3 good WR's last year. So unless were taking a stud at the top of the draft I don't see one in the first 3 rounds. I would enjoy a good slot WR but I think OL depth may be more important.

We Believe In Victory..

HURRICANE!!! · 04-18-2015, 09:14 AM

Quote:Agreed. If Fowler or Beasley... or maybe even Ray... happen to be there at #6, you take him. Otherwise I can see another trade down possible. That is, the Jaguars trade the #6 and their #36 for the Browns #12, #19 and their later fourth round pick. In all the Jaguars would end up with the following picks in the first rour rounds...

Round 1 - #12 and #19

Round 2 - #37

Round 3 - #255

Round 4 - #103, #111 and #115

I like that scenario

jagsfaninmo · 04-18-2015, 09:50 AM

Quote:Considering most folks still have him the highest rated non-QB in the draft and have all along...

I wouldn't worry about that. Personally, I'm not.

We don't need Williams, and you are way over valuing him mentioning Luck in the same sentence.

We should take Beasely (best pass rusher in this class that isn't high) or Amari Cooper to help Blake, or trade down and take pot boy from Nebraska.

Williams isn't even in the same pass rushing ballpark as Beasely. In no sane universe should the Jags take Williams over Beasely or Cooper.

Because of the above, the Jags should field trade offer for those who need a DT. Taking Williams is not the best move Caldwell could make.

MalabarJag · 04-18-2015, 10:19 AM

Quote:With how much we rotate, he could line up as the 1-T, the 3T, or the 5T and get plenty of snaps. Move him around and create mismatches. Have a slow guard? Play him at 1T or 3T on passing downs. Need to stop the run? Play him at RDE.

That's possible. Still that means the Jags are using the #3 pick on a rotation guy. Mostly he'd rotate in place of Marks or Odrick, with each then playing 2/3 of the time. Alualu becomes a bench warmer after just signing a new contract. And making Williams a jack of all trades on the DL is making him a master of none. Very few players turn out to be JJ Watt.

When I think about it, I guess every defensive lineman is effectively a rotation guy. They don't play every down like an OT or QB would.

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

MalabarJag · 04-18-2015, 10:22 AM

Quote:Agreed. If Fowler or Beasley... or maybe even Ray... happen to be there at #6, you take him. Otherwise I can see another trade down possible. That is, the Jaguars trade the #6 and their #36 for the Browns #12, #19 and their later fourth round pick. In all the Jaguars would end up with the following picks in the first rour rounds...

Round 1 - #12 and #19

Round 2 - #37

Round 3 - #255

Round 4 - #103, #111 and #115

I'd rather have picks 6 and 36 than picks 12 and 19. With pick #6 we get one of the top LEOs. And while it fits the value chart, I doubt either of the 4ths get thrown in in reality.

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Achilles · 04-18-2015, 11:21 AM

Quote:That's possible. Still that means the Jags are using the #3 pick on a rotation guy. Mostly he'd rotate in place of Marks or Odrick, with each then playing 2/3 of the time. Alualu becomes a bench warmer after just signing a new contract. And making Williams a jack of all trades on the DL is making him a master of none. Very few players turn out to be JJ Watt.

When I think about it, I guess every defensive lineman is effectively a rotation guy. They don't play every down like an OT or QB would.

Exactly. The more well rested defensive linemen are, the more effective they are. When you consider marks might not be 100% until later on in the season, if at all, or even might not be back until later in the season....that would be no reason not to take Williams.

And if odrick, or marks goes down, are the players behind them really that good?

You find a way to put Williams talent to use. To me, he is a can't pass prospect (of course everyone has their price though)

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

knarnn · 04-18-2015, 11:24 AM

Quote:Either way you look at it, our first 3 picks should be 3 of these 4 positions: a) LEO b) RB c) FS d) OL. I still don't see the WR happening. Maybe it's just me but we have holes on our team and Dave just picked 3 good WR's last year. So unless were taking a stud at the top of the draft I don't see one in the first 3 rounds. I would enjoy a good slot WR but I think OL depth may be more important.

Its called depth for a reason. You could get good OL depth in rounds 4 and beyond. Your first 3 picks should have a realistic shot to be immediate starters or at least heavy contributors (outside of the first 2 rounds).

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

knarnn · 04-18-2015, 11:28 AM

Quote:Exactly. The more well rested defensive linemen are, the more effective they are. When you consider marks might not be 100% until later on in the season, if at all, or even might not be back until later in the season....that would be no reason not to take Williams.

And if odrick, or marks goes down, are the players behind them really that good?

You find a way to put Williams talent to use. To me, he is a can't pass prospect (of course everyone has their price though)

There are 7 rounds in the draft. If you're looking for rotational players there's no reason to spend a top 3 pick on that as I explained to the poster above.

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Byron LeftTown · 04-18-2015, 11:34 AM

Quote:Either way you look at it, our first 3 picks should be 3 of these 4 positions: a) LEO B) RB c) FS d) OL. I still don't see the WR happening. Maybe it's just me but we have holes on our team and Dave just picked 3 good WR's last year. So unless were taking a stud at the top of the draft I don't see one in the first 3 rounds. I would enjoy a good slot WR but I think OL depth may be more important.

Dave seems to want a slot receiver, and it's another deep draft at the position, so I would expect a WR to be picked at some point.

I agree we need some depth and competition on the OL. I think a MLB or OTTO will be picked at some point, too.

Dunno if there's a FS worth drafting, but Dave will find a good RB.

SuperJville · 04-18-2015, 01:49 PM

Quote:There are 7 rounds in the draft. If you're looking for rotational players there's no reason to spend a top 3 pick on that as I explained to the poster above.

The defensive line rotates so much that the first backup may play as many snaps as a starter in another posiition.

Mans lets not kid ourselves, if Leonard Williams is the pick, HE will be the starter regardless of position in a year at the latest, and the rest of the guys will rotate in/out.

Achilles · 04-18-2015, 02:28 PM

Quote:There are 7 rounds in the draft. If you're looking for rotational players there's no reason to spend a top 3 pick on that as I explained to the poster above.

beasley, fowler, gregory would all split time too. we probably just shouldnt take a player in the first round then.

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Scarecrow · 04-18-2015, 02:47 PM

<a class="" href='https://twitter.com/md_1010xl'>Mike Dempsey ‏@md_1010xl </a> <a class="" href='https://twitter.com/md_1010xl/status/589498800852508672'>1m</a>

<a class="" href='https://twitter.com/md_1010xl/status/589498800852508672'>1 minute ago</a>
Still think the Jags wil,go d-line at 1.03 but draft Amari Cooper and get a RB in round 2 (Ajayi, Coleman), 3 (Yeldon or Duke) cont...



<a class="" href='https://twitter.com/md_1010xl'>Mike Dempsey ‏@md_1010xl </a> <a class="" href='https://twitter.com/md_1010xl/status/589499040946999296' title="1:41 PM - 18 Apr 2015">13s</a>

<a class="" href='https://twitter.com/md_1010xl/status/589499040946999296' title="1:41 PM - 18 Apr 2015">14 seconds ago</a>
...or 4 (David Cobb) and the offense will not really have any holes.



I'll drop these here.



Cooper intrigues me more and more by the day.



Cooper, Robinson, Lee, Thomas, and Coleman/Duke/Denard at RB?



I like the thought of that.



OL of Joeckel/Beadles/Wisnewski/Bowanko/Linder/Parnell



I know that Beadles struggled early but I thought he got better and better as the season wore on and played quite well at the end. Another year for last years draft class (a class that could end up being the one Caldwell tips his hat on, early it looks real, real good) to develop and grow into the NFL and we could be looking at a surprising season.



A lot hinges on how well the offense picks up with the new staff added. Luke Joeckel's improvement will be key too. As will Bortles, obviously. I think this offense will set Bortles up for a lot more success than last years. I was in denial a bit on how bad the OL was early and how young it was. It became pretty clear though.



This offense, on paper, looks to be well ahead of where it was this time last year.

Achilles · 04-18-2015, 02:52 PM

Quote:Mike Dempsey ‏@md_1010xl 1m

<div style="color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">1 minute ago
Still think the Jags wil,go d-line at 1.03 but draft Amari Cooper and get a RB in round 2 (Ajayi, Coleman), 3 (Yeldon or Duke) cont...



Mike Dempsey ‏@md_1010xl 13s

14 seconds ago
...or 4 (David Cobb) and the offense will not really have any holes.



I'll drop these here.



Cooper intrigues me more and more by the day.



Cooper, Robinson, Lee, Thomas, and Coleman/Duke/Denard at RB?



I like the thought of that.



OL of Joeckel/Beadles/Wisnewski/Bowanko/Linder/Parnell



I know that Beadles struggled early but I thought he got better and better as the season wore on and played quite well at the end. Another year for last years draft class (a class that could end up being the one Caldwell tips his hat on, early it looks real, real good) to develop and grow into the NFL and we could be looking at a surprising season.



A lot hinges on how well the offense picks up with the new staff added. Luke Joeckel's improvement will be key too. As will Bortles, obviously. I think this offense will set Bortles up for a lot more success than last years. I was in denial a bit on how bad the OL was early and how young it was. It became pretty clear though.



This offense, on paper, looks to be well ahead of where it was this time last year.

</div>

the jaguars might know something we dont with blackmon. if caldwell is confident he will come back and could contribute then i dont see any scenario where a WR is taken in rd 1.

if the jaguars have no faith at all in blackmon coming back, then i do think there is a small chance they would take a WR. very very small chance.

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

SuperJville · 04-18-2015, 03:18 PM

Quote:the jaguars might know something we dont with blackmon. if caldwell is confident he will come back and could contribute then i dont see any scenario where a WR is taken in rd 1.

if the jaguars have no faith at all in blackmon coming back, then i do think there is a small chance they would take a WR. very very small chance.

Regardless if Blackmon comes back or not, WR is a possibility.

We don't have a true go to WR and there may be two at the top of the draft. The top 2 receivers are better prospects and all those edge rushers.