I don't see what's wrong with unions having to compete/improve themselves to make union membership worth the dues. 

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There was a time and place for unions throughout the history of this great nation. Most of the reasoning for having them in the first place no longer exist. It is now a limb of the liberal party.

 

Unions still have their place in a limited capacity. Some places still need them. However, a majority of American business no longer require them.

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What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.







 

The businesses may not need them but would the workers be better off with them?


You gain a lot of bargaining power as a big group that you don't have as a n individual

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My two countries UK and Australia have higher home ownership rates than the US. Adding other European countries is a bit pointless as Germany for example has strict rent control so many rent instead.


Cost of living is a bit of a pointless comparison unless you factor in wage rates. Just from the eye test there's a lot more poverty in the US , less ability to travel due to disposable income etc


Not to mention we get more paid annual leave etc.

 

gdp per capita: US 59k /UK 39k. 

 

Have a nice night player

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It's sure is fun to pretend to know what you're talking about when in reality you're clueless.


I've been an Ironworker for 20 years. The first 10 years I worked with non-union companies. The attitude concerning safety was "You fall from the building, you're fired before you hit the ground." On the flip side when I joined the Ironworkers Union the attitude towards safety was "Every man goes home to their family every day." Quite the stark contrast. And to further my point: in the 10 years I worked non-union I never took a single safety class or was tested to see if I could pass a welding test. That kind of stuff costs money and they couldn't be spending on that when their grandkids need brand new Z71's.


I've have spent over 100 hours of my own time taking OSHA 30 class, 80 hour rigging course, Sub Part R course, and unlimited thickness bridge code welding certification. So to say that the union don't care about putting safe, qualified workers on job sites is a lie.


As far as dues are concerned, every member has the right to opt out of paying International dues with no penalty. The local dues are mandatory because the hall needs expense money to operate. And dues are tax deductible.


It's funny to me that Unions were highly regarded when "The Greatest Generation" worked union jobs and were able to provide a nice living for their families with a nice retirement pension waiting at the end for them, but screw the later generations because they back a political party that many older people dislike.

 

It sounds like you've had a very positive experience with union representation.  A lot of people have had positive experiences with union representation.  That's why they should be able to compete for membership with the services they provide in a cost risk analysis of the liability of dues they will collect. 

 

Right to work doesn't break up unions, it breaks up union monopolies so that the union itself is required to maintain your level of satisfaction and not just mandate your participation.

 

In many many cases, to Jags point, Unions have had to increase services and decrease dues to attract workers and in reality this has increased union participation in some states. 

 

The freer the market, including the labor market, the more choices people have and the better the outcomes for everyone involved.

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gdp per capita: US 59k /UK 39k. 

 

Have a nice night player

How does GDP per capita help the average American? It's not like it's a figure that is then distributed to the populace. I guess that's all you have though...

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How does GDP per capita help the average American? It's not like it's a figure that is then distributed to the populace. I guess that's all you have though...

 

 

you mad bro?

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you mad bro?

So by your logic the Irish are the best off in Europe? And the middle east is the best place in the world?

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It's sure is fun to pretend to know what you're talking about when in reality you're clueless.


I've been an Ironworker for 20 years. The first 10 years I worked with non-union companies. The attitude concerning safety was "You fall from the building, you're fired before you hit the ground." On the flip side when I joined the Ironworkers Union the attitude towards safety was "Every man goes home to their family every day." Quite the stark contrast. And to further my point: in the 10 years I worked non-union I never took a single safety class or was tested to see if I could pass a welding test. That kind of stuff costs money and they couldn't be spending on that when their grandkids need brand new Z71's.


I've have spent over 100 hours of my own time taking OSHA 30 class, 80 hour rigging course, Sub Part R course, and unlimited thickness bridge code welding certification. So to say that the union don't care about putting safe, qualified workers on job sites is a lie.


As far as dues are concerned, every member has the right to opt out of paying International dues with no penalty. The local dues are mandatory because the hall needs expense money to operate. And dues are tax deductible.


It's funny to me that Unions were highly regarded when "The Greatest Generation" worked union jobs and were able to provide a nice living for their families with a nice retirement pension waiting at the end for them, but screw the later generations because they back a political party that many older people dislike.

Good post.


I'm highly trained and good at my job. I show up to work on time and almost never call in sick. My satisfaction scores for work performance and customer satisfaction are near-perfect. Of course, this wouldn't matter much to management when they decide it's time to increase their own bonuses and cut positions and/or lower wages. That's something that keeps being overlooked. Union detrators focus their critiques on unions and give management a free pass.


I've been a union member now for almost 12 years. Dues are reasonable (roughly $80/month). With wages and T-COLA I'm bringing in around $34/hr. Grievance payments from management violations gets me about $300/yr on average. I figure that without union representation, my job would pay about $18/hr tops. That is, if I had a job, because there wouldn't be much to stop management from laying me off or firing me so they can hire a relative of theirs. Or maybe they'd just lay off everyone making $20/hr or more and replace them with cheap, inexperienced alternatives hires.


After having worked in non-union environments up until I was 36 years old, I can say that I wouldn't go back to a non-union job for anything.

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"We believe in victory!"   - Gus Bradley
"I don't want to believe.  I want to know."   - Carl Sagan

So by your logic the Irish are the best off in Europe? And the middle east is the best place in the world?

 

No, but comparing overall economic output is a good baseline for determining the wealth of nations.  In the case of middle eastern countries, you have inordinate GDP from a single income source on relatively low populations.  conversely, The US has 300 million plus people and has been the economic leader in the world for the better part of the last century.  Direct comparison between the UK and the US on that basis is valid. 

 

In your case, you admit that you throw out certain criteria that you find inconvenient. 

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Also, I'm conservative-minded and hold conservative views in most areas. I'm a registered Republican, but I don't feel bound by my party affiliation when the party view differs from my own.


Unions are one of the issues where I break ranks.


In our local, our executive board is about 50/50 split between democrats and republicans (I know all of them personally) and they aren't perfect but they do seem to fight for the members. There is a list on the union board ar work which shows the results of the grievances they have filed. It's updated regularly, and clearly shows that they are doing something besides "stealing dues" as some people would put it. Of course, we also have a nice annual picnic, free for members.


I'm not claiming that all unions are equal. Maybe I'm in one of the better ones. However, I believe most employees would be better off in a union environment than outside of one.

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"We believe in victory!"   - Gus Bradley
"I don't want to believe.  I want to know."   - Carl Sagan

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/06/right-to-work-movement-claims-victory-in-missouri-eyes-nh-next.html'>This was a bit of good news</a>. Missouri is the latest state to stand up to the obsolete failing unions. It's amazing how a change in political ideology can make so much progress, thus Missouri is now "open for business". It will be interesting to see how much union membership plummets as a result of this well thought out piece of legislation.


It also appears that New Hampshire might be the next state to join the growing number of states supporting Right to Work.


Democrats are probably in panic mode since their slush fund lobbyists (unions) are going to be losing money.

How do you feel about police and fire fighter unions?

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So here is my question on this.  If unions are so great, why have an issue with Right to work laws?  All those laws state is that unions can't force employees to join or pay dues.

 

 If the union is providing such a good service, wouldn't employees want to sign up voluntarily?

 

If you have to force someone to pay you, I'd be willing to be that your service isn't all that great.

 

Right to work is nothing more than freedom of choice.   The fact that the unions oppose that says a lot in my opinion

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So here is my question on this. If unions are so great, why have an issue with Right to work laws? All those laws state is that unions can't force employees to join or pay dues.


If the union is providing such a good service, wouldn't employees want to sign up voluntarily?


If you have to force someone to pay you, I'd be willing to be that your service isn't all that great.


Right to work is nothing more than freedom of choice. The fact that the unions oppose that says a lot in my opinion

Because it give the individuals the benefits the union bargains for the employees for free.


Why pay dues when you can get it for free!

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Because it give the individuals the benefits the union bargains for the employees for free.


Why pay dues when you can get it for free!

 

But one of the claims that pro union folks use to justify the continued existence of unions is that everyone benefits from things unions fight for.   So.....that is already happening.  

 

If working conditions deteriorated because people stopped paying union dues, then it seems that people would gladly rejoin the union to improve things.

 

Sorry, I just don't believe that a service (which is what unions claim to provide) should be forced upon someone.  If unions aren't able to stand on their own merits, that is telling you something.

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After being a Union Steward for a previous employer for close to 8 years, I can without a doubt say that all the union cared about was our weekly dues..

 

And that's their single biggest reason for fighting against right to work.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Because it give the individuals the benefits the union bargains for the employees for free.


Why pay dues when you can get it for free!

...like going to church and listening to the sermons/music, attending church dinners to eat free food, partaking in communion, etc. without ever putting any money into the collection plates (which is needed to fund all those things)


...like showing up at a restaurant, ordering a glass of water, and demanding free side dishes that paying patrons would get anyway if they ordered entrees. Then, leaving without paying any money (not even leaving a tip).


...like getting in a row boat and refusing to paddle like the others, causing everyone else to have to row harder just to carry your "dead weight"


You would think my fellow Republicans, as opposed to welfare/handouts/freeloaders as they are would be pro-union types as well.

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"We believe in victory!"   - Gus Bradley
"I don't want to believe.  I want to know."   - Carl Sagan

So here is my question on this.  If unions are so great, why have an issue with Right to work laws?  All those laws state is that unions can't force employees to join or pay dues.

 

 If the union is providing such a good service, wouldn't employees want to sign up voluntarily?

 

If you have to force someone to pay you, I'd be willing to be that your service isn't all that great.

 

Right to work is nothing more than freedom of choice.   The fact that the unions oppose that says a lot in my opinion

Slam dunk.

 

Game, set, match.

 

That is the bottom line.

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What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.







 

Some people have had good experiences having their unions extract part of their earnings from them.  Good for you guys.  The only time that I've had to work and belong to a union was in my teenage years when I worked at a grocery store.  At the time I had no idea what a union was, only that they took money out of my paycheck.

 

However, after hearing and seeing for myself some of the ridiculousness that unions bring to the workplace I have no use for them.  As an example, a co-worker of mine once worked for an electric company here in Jacksonville and was in the union at the time.  He told me that the only reason he joined the union is because they made it known who was union and who was non-union.  Non-union members were often threatened and harassed until they finally joined.  Union representatives pretty much "told" their members who to vote for during elections and in every case it was the democrat party.  My problem with that is it's not the union's business to "tell" anyone who to vote for at all.

 

Another time we were setting up a booth at a convention center and were provided a faulty power strip.  We asked one of the people at the facility that provided equipment if we could get a replacement from them and the answer was that he had to call a licensed electrician to do so... for a simple power strip.

 

If dues are collected just for "operations", then why do unions contribute so much money to the democrat party?  Where does that money come from?  If unions are so good why were the biggest ones primarily run by organized crime?  I suspect that many of them probably still are.

 

 

How do you feel about police and fire fighter unions?

 

I think that they should go away as well.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Unions here are pretty much all about <del>gathering</del> <del>confiscating</del> accepting union "dues" which is <del>earned</del> confiscated money from workers to give to the democrat party. Unions do nothing for pay and/or benefits as well as health or safety stuff.


I can give a very good example of this.


The company that I work for is non-union but has a CBA. We negotiated with the company to define wages and benefits.


The same company has another contract with the parent company, and they decided to go "union". They got "perceived" higher salaries than we did, but what they didn't factor into it was the union dues that they had to pay. It basically meant that their gross pay was higher than ours. However, the deduction of union dues isn't tax deductible and doesn't do anything for them. Once union dues along with all of the other taxes came out, the net take-home pay was the same. All it does is funnel money to the unions disguised as "making more money" than anybody else in the same industry. The fact of the matter is, an engineer working for the other arm of the company is still making the same amount that I do,. The difference is that engineer feeds money ultimately towards the democrat machine while I decide where money that I earn goes.


Unions are worthless.

Tell that to the French. Their Unions are ridiculous.

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