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~~Kyle Eckstein~~ · 03-01-2015, 03:13 PM

Quote:Hughes is overrated

Just because he couldn't be the next Freeney for the Colts does not make him overrated. Yeah, we've heard your argument he only did well for the Bills because their line is loaded. Noted. Pretty much every team would welcome him, but yep.

huttops · 03-01-2015, 03:41 PM

I like to see sub 7 second 3 cone, and high numbers in the vert and broad. That, along with very impressive game tape and surprising bench figures makes Beasley a no brainer as the #3 pick if Williams is off the board.

EDIT: The 3 cone is so important for edge rushers because it shows lateral agility and ability to drop weight and explode around the corner. In many respects, it mimics the action of pass rushing itself.

SuperJville · 03-01-2015, 03:56 PM

Quote:Just because he couldn't be the next Freeney for the Colts does not make him overrated. Yeah, we've heard your argument he only did well for the Bills because their line is loaded. Noted. Pretty much every team would welcome him, but yep.

If we're going to overspend on a player, let's do it on a dominant player like Suh.

Hughes is younger than Clemons but I don't think he's much better. Just my opinion, we are allowed to disagree.

KYjaggy · 03-01-2015, 04:01 PM

If we did get Fowler to play OTTO (or went with a crazy pick like White), I would love Preston Smith as our 2nd rounder, if he isn't gone of course.

SuperJville · 03-01-2015, 04:05 PM

Fowler doesn't have elite size nor elite athleticism nor elite production... even though I think he will be good - those kind of things you expect from a top 3 pick.

I think one "swing-for-the-fences" type of pick is Vic Beasley at 3.. He's at least a monster athletically. Hopefully if you coach him up he could be your 10+ sack/year guy for years to come.

Achilles · 03-01-2015, 04:07 PM

Quote:Fowler doesn't have elite size nor elite athleticism nor elite production... even though I think he will be good - those kind of things you expect from a top 3 pick.

I think one "swing-for-the-fences" type of pick is Vic Beasley at 3.. He's at least a monster athletically. Hopefully if you coach him up he could be your 10+ sack/year guy for years to come.

he is definitely intriguing but i dont necessarily understand why he wasnt more productive last year. sometimes those physical attributes just dont translate to the field. shane ray is kind of the opposite, not as big, but he produced big time. for me i kind of lean towards the guy who has shown he can produce, not necessarily saying ray should be the pick, even though he did dominate in the SEC, but give me a guy who has shown he knows how to use his given gifts.

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

KYjaggy · 03-01-2015, 04:09 PM

Quote:Fowler doesn't have elite size nor elite athleticism nor elite production... even though I think he will be good - those kind of things you expect from a top 3 pick.

I think one "swing-for-the-fences" type of pick is Vic Beasley at 3.. He's at least a monster athletically. Hopefully if you coach him up he could be your 10+ sack/year guy for years to come.

Swing for the fences would imply a lot of bust potential on the flip side. That's not Beasley to me. He is just a damn good (and safe) player who would absolutely be a good pick and not at all a reach at 3.

KYjaggy · 03-01-2015, 04:11 PM

Quote:he is definitely intriguing but i dont necessarily understand why he wasnt more productive last year. sometimes those physical attributes just dont translate to the field. shane ray is kind of the opposite, not as big, but he produced big time. for me i kind of lean towards the guy who has shown he can produce, not necessarily saying ray should be the pick, even though he did dominate in the SEC, but give me a guy who has shown he knows how to use his given gifts.

No one in college football received more attention than Beasley. He was basically the Clowney of this year with how much blocking help he demanded.

Ray isn't even close to Vic to me, or most people at this point.

Achilles · 03-01-2015, 04:41 PM

Quote:No one in college football received more attention than Beasley. He was basically the Clowney of this year with how much blocking help he demanded.

Ray isn't even close to Vic to me, or most people at this point.

almost just based on how far up vics rear end you are makes me want to stay away from him.

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Stigma · 03-01-2015, 04:54 PM

The thing about Vic Beasley is that he can rush the passer but he does not hold the edge and stop the run.

Vic Beasley is the very epitiome of the word "OVER-RATED".

rfc17 · 03-01-2015, 05:00 PM

Quote:So did he just pull this out of thin air or is there some actual basis for it?

A few years back someone on another draft board published an analysis on LBs based on their height, weight, other measurables, combine results, etc.... and it was actually a pretty effective tool. Obviously nothing is fool proof, but it eliminated a lot of busts and highlighted the top tier prospects.

This thing looks like a copy of that analysis minus the height and weight. Although for a LEO position, height and weight not may not be as important since it's really all about speed and athleticism around the corner.

________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters. Draft philosophy is all fluff.

FreeAgent01 · 03-01-2015, 05:01 PM

Quote:The thing about Vic Beasley is that he can rush the passer but he does not hold the edge and stop the run.

Vic Beasley is the very epitiome of the word "OVER-RATED".

That was true in 2013, but he improved greatly in 2014. He still isn't great in setting the edge, but he isn't bad.

I feel his best fit is at otto.

KYjaggy · 03-01-2015, 05:12 PM

Quote:almost just based on how far up vics rear end you are makes me want to stay away from him.

Because I said he is a lot better than Ray? Guess that means ~80% of draftniks are up Beasley's rear then.

SuperJville · 03-01-2015, 05:16 PM

Quote:The thing about Vic Beasley is that he can rush the passer but he does not hold the edge and stop the run.

Vic Beasley is the very epitiome of the word "OVER-RATED".

If he can rush the passer well, he's already highly valuable.

Setting the edge and improving as a pass rusher can come with time.

He's shown the ability to get bigger (is now nearly 250 lbs) and stronger, while keeping his elite athleticism.

Achilles · 03-01-2015, 05:25 PM

Quote:Swing for the fences would imply a lot of bust potential on the flip side. That's not Beasley to me. He is just a damn good (and safe) player who would absolutely be a good pick and not at all a reach at 3.

i think this is probably why i said that, it has nothing to do with ray.

Quote:Because I said he is a lot better than Ray? Guess that means ~80% of draftniks are up Beasley's rear then.

did 80% of draftniks also say the top statement?

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

KYjaggy · 03-01-2015, 05:57 PM

Quote:i think this is probably why i said that, it has nothing to do with ray.

did 80% of draftniks also say the top statement?

I didn't say he was my #1 option, that is still Leonard Williams. But he also isn't a reach. Leo Williams, Fowler, Beasley should be the top 3 options right now IMO, with Gregory a bit behind them (and White as an ok off the wall wild card). Ray, Amari, and Scherff are the picks I would be quite unhappy with.

That said, many draftniks are much more up Beasley's rear by your definition. Such as these 4 very well respected personalities that I found off my timeline in about 5 seconds:

Joe G ‏@JoeGoodberry  Feb 26
3rd pick in #Mockadoodledoo, Jaguars select Vic Beasley, EDGE, Clemson. Biggest pass rushing threat in draft.

Cian Fahey ‏@Cianaf  Feb 26
I'm in favor of this right now RT @JoeGoodberry 3rd pick in #Mockadoodledoo, Jaguars select Vic Beasley, EDGE

Justis Mosqueda ‏@JuMosq  2h2 hours ago
Hands down most valuable non-QB to me. RT @ap575 Vic is probably the best prospect, period.

Achilles · 03-01-2015, 07:03 PM

Quote:I didn't say he was my #1 option, that is still Leonard Williams. But he also isn't a reach. Leo Williams, Fowler, Beasley should be the top 3 options right now IMO, with Gregory a bit behind them (and White as an ok off the wall wild card). Ray, Amari, and Scherff are the picks I would be quite unhappy with.

That said, many draftniks are much more up Beasley's rear by your definition. Such as these 4 very well respected personalities that I found off my timeline in about 5 seconds:

<div>Joe G ‏@JoeGoodberry Feb 26
3rd pick in #Mockadoodledoo, Jaguars select Vic Beasley, EDGE, Clemson. Biggest pass rushing threat in draft.

Cian Fahey ‏@Cianaf Feb 26
I'm in favor of this right now RT @JoeGoodberry 3rd pick in #Mockadoodledoo, Jaguars select Vic Beasley, EDGE

Justis Mosqueda ‏@JuMosq 2h2 hours ago
Hands down most valuable non-QB to me. RT @ap575 Vic is probably the best prospect, period.

</div>

1. ive never heard of any of those people

2. this is all based on him being a workout warrior.

i already discussed how i like to see production more than great combine numbers.

edit: i also cant really think of a lot of examples where a pass rusher was considered a "safe player"

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

KYjaggy · 03-01-2015, 07:30 PM

Quote:1. ive never heard of any of those people

2. this is all based on him being a workout warrior.

As a wise man named Gus Bradley would say, it's time to get better sir.

SuperJville · 03-01-2015, 07:35 PM

Quote:1. ive never heard of any of those people

2. this is all based on him being a workout warrior.

i already discussed how i like to see production more than great combine numbers.

edit: i also cant really think of a lot of examples where a pass rusher was considered a "safe player"

Beasley was very productive.

This is a case where production meets athleticism...

In 3 years as a starter, Beasley had 33 sacks and over 50 tackles for loss.

It's not like when that guy from Uconn jumped 15 feet and suddenly amateur scouts started creaming their pants.

Achilles · 03-01-2015, 07:46 PM

Quote:Beasley was very productive.

This is a case where production meets athleticism...

In 3 years as a starter, Beasley had 33 sacks and over 50 tackles for loss.

It's not like when that guy from Uconn jumped 15 feet and suddenly amateur scouts started creaming their pants.

22 solo tackles last year.... 4 games in a row where he didnt register a sack (i will admit idk if he was injured in those games or something but i know he played)

thats not great productivity.

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."