The less opinion pieces from a mouthpiece owned by Rupert Murdoch you read, the less confused you will be.

Digging into the questions of the survey though it leaves a lot to be desired. This has been the basis of the argument. It's an important argument and this 9 or 10 question survey which is extremely general is supposed to support the fact that global warming is happening and we are the cause.

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Some cool stuff coming down the pike, Toyota is releasing the first commercial hydrogen cell hybrid in California next year. I think In the next 10 years you'll have a majority of hybrids some gas some hydrogen cell on the road.


Also as automated vehicles populate you'll have better emissions they will be programmed to run as lean as possible.


Mercedes is set to have fully automated semi trucks running on American highways by 2022.


Also the Elio motor is boasting 84 mpg on regular gasoline engine.


What do all theses have in common? Private sector finding solutions, now compare that to what government has actually accomplished and global warming or not it's clear the solution to less pollution is for government to get out of the way.

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Some cool stuff coming down the pike, Toyota is releasing the first commercial hydrogen cell hybrid in California next year. I think In the next 10 years you'll have a majority of hybrids some gas some hydrogen cell on the road.


Also as automated vehicles populate you'll have better emissions they will be programmed to run as lean as possible.


Mercedes is set to have fully automated semi trucks running on American highways by 2022.


Also the Elio motor is boasting 84 mpg on regular gasoline engine.


What do all theses have in common? Private sector finding solutions, now compare that to what government has actually accomplished and global warming or not it's clear the solution to less pollution is for government to get out of the way.

Ehhh, don't completely agree. The private sector is way behind MPG then they should be with the technology we have. Government stepped in because the private sector was not doing anything about it.

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Some cool stuff coming down the pike, Toyota is releasing the first commercial hydrogen cell hybrid in California next year. I think In the next 10 years you'll have a majority of hybrids some gas some hydrogen cell on the road.


Also as automated vehicles populate you'll have better emissions they will be programmed to run as lean as possible.


Mercedes is set to have fully automated semi trucks running on American highways by 2022.


Also the Elio motor is boasting 84 mpg on regular gasoline engine.


What do all theses have in common? Private sector finding solutions, now compare that to what government has actually accomplished and global warming or not it's clear the solution to less pollution is for government to get out of the way.

 

Are you really trying to make a case that, given no government involvement, the private sector would be developing more fuel efficient, environment friendly automobiles?

 

And you're doing this with a straight face?

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Ehhh, don't completely agree. The private sector is way behind MPG then they should be with the technology we have. Government stepped in because the private sector was not doing anything about it.

 

Ethanol is a big reason why we are so far behind MPG. And then there's the cost, we've got cars that easily average 50+ mpg problem is by the time they make it to the consumer they're out priced for half of the market base. That's a direct result of cost added to the vehicle during production and design by regulatory forces. 

 

The technology is there, the issue is how to get it cost effectively to the consumer. Heck the Elio vehicle is jumping through every conceivable hoop and they're pushing for a starting price of $6,800 and it's expect to get 80+ MPG in the city. 

 

 

Are you really trying to make a case that, given no government involvement, the private sector would be developing more fuel efficient, environment friendly automobiles?

 

And you're doing this with a straight face?

 

Government has done everything possible to hinder the advancement of more efficient vehicles. Starting with Ethanol being mandated into the fuel which KILLS your engine. 

 

There's no government program driving hydrogen cell fuel vehicles. Hell they've had hydrogen conversion kits for modern vehicle the last 10 years. Problem is finding a mechanic that knows enough about them to install them. 

 

Yes it's the private sector finding solutions because the market is seeking solutions. 

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Are you really trying to make a case that, given no government involvement, the private sector would be developing more fuel efficient, environment friendly automobiles?

 

And you're doing this with a straight face?

The European car industry has always been far more regulated than the American and it has always been ahead in terms of MPG. Japan's fantastic track record with MPG and squeezing ever available HP out of an engine is the direct result of government regulations. The same for Japan's ability to make small cars which is the direct result of government regulations regarding parking spaces. The free market is nice but a company will usually do the bare minimum to innovate. Innovation is a reaction to restriction. 

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The European car industry has always been far more regulated than the American and it has always been ahead in terms of MPG. Japan's fantastic track record with MPG and squeezing ever available HP out of an engine is the direct result of government regulations. The same for Japan's ability to make small cars which is the direct result of government regulations regarding parking spaces. The free market is nice but a company will usually do the bare minimum to innovate. Innovation is a reaction to restriction. 

 

I don't fully agree with Eric, but there's a big difference in European / Asian governments than the US government. I wouldn't use their effectiveness with increasing MPG as a comparison to what the US government has done with gas efficiency.

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The European car industry has always been far more regulated than the American and it has always been ahead in terms of MPG. Japan's fantastic track record with MPG and squeezing ever available HP out of an engine is the direct result of government regulations. The same for Japan's ability to make small cars which is the direct result of government regulations regarding parking spaces. The free market is nice but a company will usually do the bare minimum to innovate. Innovation is a reaction to restriction. 

 

Europe is mostly diesel, American diesel vehicles get just as good of MPG as European diesel vehicles. Not to mention the regulations in many European nations drive the cost so high that private vehicle ownership is no where near what it is in America. Many parts of Europe use strictly public transportation.

 

The reality is regulation doesn't lead to innovation it leads to individuals and companies looking for another way to perform the task.

---

 

The reality is regulation doesn't lead to innovation it leads to individuals and companies looking for another way to perform the task.

Not really. Standard Oil patents plus lock and key methods has evolved us to where we are today.


Back in the thirties they developed a carburetor that was 72% efficient that could run well over a hundred and fifty miles on a gallon of gas and here we are almost a century later and that reality is yet just a fantasy.

---

Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

Since we're into irrelevantly small statistical samples I'll just leave this here.

 

https://twitter.com/JunkScience/status/5...7577489409

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Europe is mostly diesel, American diesel vehicles get just as good of MPG as European diesel vehicles. Not to mention the regulations in many European nations drive the cost so high that private vehicle ownership is no where near what it is in America. Many parts of Europe use strictly public transportation.

 

The reality is regulation doesn't lead to innovation it leads to individuals and companies looking for another way to perform the task.

That's called innovation.

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That's called innovation.

Not when the solutions are to abandon the task. For example mass public transportation in place of private individual vehicle ownership. There's no innovation there just people avoiding ownership due to high cost.

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Not really. Standard Oil patents plus lock and key methods has evolved us to where we are today.


Back in the thirties they developed a carburetor that was 72% efficient that could run well over a hundred and fifty miles on a gallon of gas and here we are almost a century later and that reality is yet just a fantasy.

And where does the authority for patents to control new invocation come from?

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Not when the solutions are to abandon the task. For example mass public transportation in place of private individual vehicle ownership. There's no innovation there just people avoiding ownership due to high cost.

That's still innovation, but on the part of the customer. 

 

 

They avoid ownership because there is a better, cheaper alternative. I live and work in the city. I can certainly afford a car, but I don't need one so I don't have one. Nothing to do with cost of ownership. And the alternative provides an incentive to car makers to lower the cost or provide a better product worthy of the added investment. 

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That's still innovation, but on the part of the customer.



They avoid ownership because there is a better, cheaper alternative. I live and work in the city. I can certainly afford a car, but I don't need one so I don't have one. Nothing to do with cost of ownership. And the alternative provides an incentive to car makers to lower the cost or provide a better product worthy of the added investment.

Less people using a product doesn't lead to the revenue streams required to create better vehicles.


So your saying the higher cost of fuel and vehicles doesn't play into the factor of you not owning a vehicle?


That's the result of heavy regulation higher cost passed onto the consumer.

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Less people using a product doesn't lead to the revenue streams required to create better vehicles.


So your saying the higher cost of fuel and vehicles doesn't play into the factor of you not owning a vehicle?


That's the result of heavy regulation higher cost passed onto the consumer.

They could cut the cost in half and I still wouldn't buy a car. Simple reason; I don't need one at the moment. Everything I need is within 20 minutes cycle of my home. Public transportation can get me virtually everywhere else and on the rare cases I do actually need a car I can borrow one or rent one.


Honestly Eric, your fetish with small government is delusional. While a massive bureacracy is certainly not desirable you still need an entity which empowers the people. The only major problem I see with the US government is your politicians being bought and paid for by corporations. The US government is no longer an equalising power between the powerful corporations and the powerless people but it is increasingly an instutition for formally legalising the almost inevitable oligarchy.

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They could cut the cost in half and I still wouldn't buy a car. Simple reason; I don't need one at the moment. Everything I need is within 20 minutes cycle of my home. Public transportation can get me virtually everywhere else and on the rare cases I do actually need a car I can borrow one or rent one.


Honestly Eric, your fetish with small government is delusional. While a massive bureacracy is certainly not desirable you still need an entity which empowers the people. The only major problem I see with the US government is your politicians being bought and paid for by corporations. The US government is no longer an equalising power between the powerful corporations and the powerless people but it is increasingly an instutition for formally legalising the almost inevitable oligarchy.

I agree the biggest problem with American government is it's bought and paid for by both corporations and bankers. However I believe when you have government as big as we do over here that is inevitable. I simple do not believe any government anywhere can grow so big and not be bought and paid for, that's why the solution is less government. You call it a fetish, I call it a solution.

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Oh, and by the way, the whole premise of this thread turned out to be crap. Just like seemingly every other Anthropogenic Global Climate Change story.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...right.html

 

FTA:

 

"As a result, GISS’s director Gavin Schmidt has now admitted Nasa thinks the likelihood that 2014 was the warmest year since 1880 is just 38 per cent."

 

Oops.

 

 



 

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Oh, and by the way, the whole premise of this thread turned out to be crap. Just like seemingly every other Anthropogenic Global Climate Change story.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2915061/Nasa-climate-scientists-said-2014-warmest-year-record-38-sure-right.html'>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2915061/Nasa-climate-scientists-said-2014-warmest-year-record-38-sure-right.html</a>


FTA:


"As a result, GISS’s director Gavin Schmidt has now admitted Nasa thinks the likelihood that 2014 was the warmest year since 1880 is just 38 per cent."


Oops.

Now, close your eyes and repeat after me.


It's not a hoax.

I do believe it.

It's a conservative plot to increase the size of government.


Say that over and over again. You'll feel better.

---

Now, close your eyes and repeat after me.


It's not a hoax.

I do believe it.

It's a conservative plot to increase the size of government.


Say that over and over again. You'll feel better.

 

Let's do the math now:

 

According to the report the 2014 temp was 0.002 higher than 2010

 

The margin of error for the report was 0.010

 

Basically the reported result was 5 TIMES less than the margin of error.

 

But we should TOTALLY trust these people that they're right.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato