Nice to have such a deep discussion of the issues like this. 

---

So.. nobody notices or cares that he has built a cabinet that caters to his investment interests?


Nobody cares that some of the people he wants to confirm are grossly unqualified for their post. Like Devos who has never attended or put her kids in public school is going to be in charge of public education. She has already expressed an interest in crossing the line of church and state with regards to curriculum.


Or Ben Carson over HUD who has zero experience in that field and has said he doesn't know how to run an office. Perry who wanted to eliminate the DOE to head it. A guy who sues the EPA to run that.


None of this is minimally concerning?

---

Only a chump boos the home team!

So.. nobody notices or cares that he has built a cabinet that caters to his investment interests?


Nobody cares that some of the people he wants to confirm are grossly unqualified for their post. Like Devos who has never attended or put her kids in public school is going to be in charge of public education. She has already expressed an interest in crossing the line of church and state with regards to curriculum.


Or Ben Carson over HUD who has zero experience in that field and has said he doesn't know how to run an office. Perry who wanted to eliminate the DOE to head it. A guy who sues the EPA to run that.


None of this is minimally concerning?

DeVos is a miserable selection and clearly picked because of the dollars she provides Trump. Just a nominee cause she is wealthy.


Franken made her look foolish.

---

Don't you wonder sometimes why so many people post in this part of the MB?

 

There are zero good conversations and everyone just bashes one another. No one is going to change their mind about how they feel towards Trump or Obama. Nothing good is coming from this. At all. Just more hate.

---

Frankly, both Conservatives and Liberals have totally lost touch.  It's become about winning, not what's best for the country.

 

Liberals are calling for Trump's impeachment before he even takes office.  We're creating safe zones for people who are upset at who is president for crying out loud.  It's politics; this is how it works.  Get over it.

 

On the flip side, Conservatives are starting to treat Trump like the Messiah.  "All he does is win" seems to be the sentiment, completely ignoring the fact that he's unqualified, hotheaded, arrogant, and brash.  He's immature, and his cabinet selections are awful.  DeVos particularly scares me.  I'm a teacher, and she is extremely anti-teacher.  She wants to push the voucher system, which means we're going to have overcrowded schools that continue to fail to meet the needs of students because there hasn't been any real education reform since we decided to base all children's and educators' academic worth on a single day of testing.  So yes, based on a SINGLE DAY, let's rate every school in the country and let parents have their pick.

 

We're just the blind leading the blind in this nation, and it's just a matter of time before it hits the fan.

---

Frankly, both Conservatives and Liberals have totally lost touch.  It's become about winning, not what's best for the country.

 

Liberals are calling for Trump's impeachment before he even takes office.  We're creating safe zones for people who are upset at who is president for crying out loud.  It's politics; this is how it works.  Get over it.

 

On the flip side, Conservatives are starting to treat Trump like the Messiah.  "All he does is win" seems to be the sentiment, completely ignoring the fact that he's unqualified, hotheaded, arrogant, and brash.  He's immature, and his cabinet selections are awful.  DeVos particularly scares me.  I'm a teacher, and she is extremely anti-teacher.  She wants to push the voucher system, which means we're going to have overcrowded schools that continue to fail to meet the needs of students because there hasn't been any real education reform since we decided to base all children's and educators' academic worth on a single day of testing.  So yes, based on a SINGLE DAY, let's rate every school in the country and let parents have their pick.

 

We're just the blind leading the blind in this nation, and it's just a matter of time before it hits the fan.

Bravo.

 

This might be the best thing I've read on here.

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^^^^this

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Just curious.. any of you care at all that he has not separated himself from his businesses or have any concern a guy who supposedly is worth $10B (Forbes says much less than half that) admits to not paying taxes, but won't disclose his records (despite previously saying he would)?


There's plenty of real and perceived conflict that has not been addressed with this guy and plenty of people are going to fight to make sure he is not in violation of the constitution the second he is sworn in.

Gosh your late. He did a whole presser about stepping away from his businesses.

---

DeVos is a miserable selection and clearly picked because of the dollars she provides Trump. Just a nominee cause she is wealthy.


Franken made her look foolish.

 

DeVos has been an activist for Charter Schools and school choice. She puts the needs of the students ahead of the needs of the teachers, so of course the teacher's union and the Dems are opposed to her.


 

Let me point out that US education has declined since the Department of Education was created. It's a negative influence and should be shut down.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Gosh your late. He did a whole presser about stepping away from his businesses.

www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/donald-trump-conflicts-of-interests/508382/


Talk is cheap. He says all sorts of stuff he back tracks on or never follows through on.

---

Only a chump boos the home team!

So.. nobody notices or cares that he has built a cabinet that caters to his investment interests?


Nobody cares that some of the people he wants to confirm are grossly unqualified for their post. Like Devos who has never attended or put her kids in public school is going to be in charge of public education. She has already expressed an interest in crossing the line of church and state with regards to curriculum.


Or Ben Carson over HUD who has zero experience in that field and has said he doesn't know how to run an office. Perry who wanted to eliminate the DOE to head it. A guy who sues the EPA to run that.


None of this is minimally concerning?

 

I agree about Ben Carson. How does Ben Carson cater to Trumps investment interests? Jeff Sessions?


 

I don't like Tillerson, but he's better than the last two. Trump has an investment in Exxon Mobil, but it's just one of a broad range of hundreds of corporate investments, which in total are an insignificant part of his overall wealth. I don't think appointing Tillerson "caters to his investment interests."


I addressed DeVos in another response.


 

DoEnergy should be eliminated. It was created in the 1970's to make the US energy independent. While the US has recently become energy independent because of technological advances in oil recovery, the DOE contributed nothing to that. After nearly 50 years it totally failed in the one mission it was assigned. It's a money pit with no redeeming value. The only thing it does that is useful is track nuclear waste, and one guy with an Excel spreadsheet could do that.


 

Under Obama the EPA became a weapon against political opponents (as did the IRS and DoInterior). It needs to be completely restructured. Who better than a person who studied their problems as part of a lawsuit?

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

DeVos has been an activist for Charter Schools and school choice. She puts the needs of the students ahead of the needs of the teachers, so of course the teacher's union and the Dems are opposed to her.


Let me point out that US education has declined since the Department of Education was created. It's a negative influence and should be shut down.

Is the claim Charter schools are successful?


Also Indiana tried vouchers and all it did was force the taxpayer to pay for the elite rich to go to private schools.


She didn't even understand basic education policy. Her experience is in being rich and a donor. That's it. Where is her experience in education as an educator?

---

Is the claim Charter schools are successful?


Also Indiana tried vouchers and all it did was force the taxpayer to pay for the elite rich to go to private schools.


She didn't even understand basic education policy. Her experience is in being rich and a donor. That's it. Where is her experience in education as an educator?

 

Some Charter schools are successful and some aren't. On average, Charters schools in the same district (apples to apples) show significantly better results.


 

https://credo.stanford.edu/pdfs/MI_repor...ermark.pdf

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Is the claim Charter schools are successful?


Also Indiana tried vouchers and all it did was force the taxpayer to pay for the elite rich to go to private schools.


She didn't even understand basic education policy. Her experience is in being rich and a donor. That's it. Where is her experience in education as an educator?

 

Charter Schools have been massive failures. DeVos destroyed education in Michigan, and she's going to do it in the US too.  When they come to Virginia, my wife and I will be packing up so that our kids can get a good education.  Because that actually matters to me.  DeVos doesn't care about children with disabilities, or really any children at all.  That should be obvious from her confirmation hearing.  But Republicans will put her through because she donated money to them.  They don't care about the results.  All they care about is the free market, and how much money they can put back into their own pocket.

---

I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Some Charter schools are successful and some aren't. On average, Charters schools in the same district (apples to apples) show significantly better results.


 

https://credo.stanford.edu/pdfs/MI_repor...ermark.pdf

Do the Charter schools in this PDF take the same test that the public schools do?

---

Some Charter schools are successful and some aren't. On average, Charters schools in the same district (apples to apples) show significantly better results.


 

https://credo.stanford.edu/pdfs/MI_repor...ermark.pdf

 

You understand that there are multiple factors for this, right?

 

1) Charter schools are, for whatever reason, higher in demand.  Many parents believe that the teachers are somehow failing their children (some are, but that's a different argument) and therefore search out an alternative.  As a result, if a child is granted admission to a charter school through lottery or waiting list, the parent is much more motivated to make sure the student stays on top of their work, and the student, therefore, is more motivated to apply him or herself.  This results in higher performance.

 

2) Charter schools are not required to continue to provide education to students who perform poorly or misbehave, but public school are.  Have a problem with a kid not taking care of business?  Kick them out.  This is not an option that is available to public schools, who have serious funding ramifications if students have frequent absences or perform poorly on assessments.  Public schools don't get to pick and choose who they get; they are expected to make lemonade out of lemons.

 

3) Charter schools are not required to take the same assessments as public schools.  This makes any comparative data essentially useless.  

 

Even given these three factors, charter schools still do not consistently outperform public schools the way they theoretically should.  You have one form of schooling that is subject to stringent regulations and is evaluated solely on a single week of the school year, rather than holistically throughout the year, and another that operates entirely outside of regulation and can use any data they so choose to report their progress or lack thereof.

 

I am not saying public schools are perfect.  The system needs top-down reform, starting with some kind of option for consistently low-performing students who don't fit into the system, like an apprenticeship program, where they can learn a trade and actually contribute to society rather than riding the welfare train.

 

I am saying teachers are not the problem, and charter school/school vouchers are not the solution.

---

Charter Schools have been massive failures. DeVos destroyed education in Michigan, and she's going to do it in the US too.  When they come to Virginia, my wife and I will be packing up so that our kids can get a good education.  Because that actually matters to me.  DeVos doesn't care about children with disabilities, or really any children at all.  That should be obvious from her confirmation hearing.  But Republicans will put her through because she donated money to them.  They don't care about the results.  All they care about is the free market, and how much money they can put back into their own pocket.

 

Destroyed? You really need to read the original study (my link) rather than the spin Occupy Democrats puts on it. I'm pretty sure Stanford.edu is not some right-wing partisan source.



 

 

Compared to the educational gains that charter students would have had in a traditional public school (TPS), the analysis shows that, on average, students in Michigan charter schools make larger learning gains in both reading and mathematics. Thirty-five percent of the charter schools have significantly more positive learning gains than their TPS counterparts in reading, while two percent of charter schools have significantly lower learning gains. In math, forty-two percent of the charter schools studied outperform their TPS peers and six percent perform worse. These findings position Michigan among the highest performing charter school states CREDO has studied to date.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/colum.../94728574/

---

I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

You understand that there are multiple factors for this, right?

 

1) Charter schools are, for whatever reason, higher in demand.  Many parents believe that the teachers are somehow failing their children (some are, but that's a different argument) and therefore search out an alternative.  As a result, if a child is granted admission to a charter school through lottery or waiting list, the parent is much more motivated to make sure the student stays on top of their work, and the student, therefore, is more motivated to apply him or herself.  This results in higher performance.

 

2) Charter schools are not required to continue to provide education to students who perform poorly or misbehave, but public school are.  Have a problem with a kid not taking care of business?  Kick them out.  This is not an option that is available to public schools, who have serious funding ramifications if students have frequent absences or perform poorly on assessments.  Public schools don't get to pick and choose who they get; they are expected to make lemonade out of lemons.

 

3) Charter schools are not required to take the same assessments as public schools.  This makes any comparative data essentially useless.  

 

Even given these three factors, charter schools still do not consistently outperform public schools the way they theoretically should.  You have one form of schooling that is subject to stringent regulations and is evaluated solely on a single week of the school year, rather than holistically throughout the year, and another that operates entirely outside of regulation and can use any data they so choose to report their progress or lack thereof.

 

I am not saying public schools are perfect.  The system needs top-down reform, starting with some kind of option for consistently low-performing students who don't fit into the system, like an apprenticeship program, where they can learn a trade and actually contribute to society rather than riding the welfare train.

 

I am saying teachers are not the problem, and charter school/school vouchers are not the solution.

 

If they can use any data they choose then 100% of the Charter schools would claim to be performing at a much higher level. I'm pretty sure the researchers at Stanford made sure they were comparing apples to apples.


 

On your point 2, that difference is part of the problem with public schools, not an excuse for the results. Shouldn't parents be allowed to choose a school for their child that doesn't have to put up with misbehavior by disruptive students?


 

Teachers are not the problem. Putting the needs of teachers ahead of the needs of the students is a problem.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/colum.../94728574/

 

I post an unbiased research study by a university and you post a partisan hit piece.


 

Right vs. Left in a nutshell.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"