He didn't rebuild?  He might not have jettisoned quite as much as Dave has, but the roster also had a lot more talent on it when Gene inherited it.  Gene was a complete rebuild.  Shack was a complete rebuild.  Dave was a complete rebuild...

 

Almost every new GM completely rebuilds...

Gene didn't inherit anything.  He moved from one office to another.  He was an integral part of the process with Shack Harris. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

So then its not a rebuild since he was on the staff?  Even though he cut most of those players he supposedly helped draft?  Makes no sense.

It's not the same thing as coming in cold and blowing it up the way Caldwell did.  Sorry.  There's no "supposedly" about it where his contributions are concerned.  He helped build the roster he supposedly gutted after taking over the helm. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Gene didn't inherit anything.  He moved from one office to another.  He was an integral part of the process with Shack Harris. 

 

Just like he was with Coughlin.

 

Facts are facts.  He cut/traded the majority of the team when he took over.  It was a rebuild - plain and simple.

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It's not the same thing as coming in cold and blowing it up the way Caldwell did.  Sorry.  There's no "supposedly" about it.  He helped build the roster he supposedly gutted after taking over the helm. 

 

How is blowing a team up to rebuild not considered a rebuild just because you were on the prior staff? 

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Not just gutted either.  People don't realize that 4th - 7th round guys don't normally come in and start right away.  That's what we're used to here because that's the only option.  We didn't have entrenched starters who were serviceable so the young guys got thrown in.  That's why we have the youngest starting roster.  If it weren't for Lewis and Scobee we'd have the youngest roster in the NFL.

 

Seriously:

 

Storm - 7th round

Evans - 6th round

McCray - 7th round

Denard - 5th round

Bowanko - 6th round

Telvin - 5th round

 

I get that Denard and Telvin aren't starting, but you get the point.  Lots of young guys who normally wouldn't be on the field this much this early after being a later draft pick are thrusted into starting lineup's and big roles.

 

If three of those guys become productive starters - that's like hitting a home run with your late round picks.  And it's a real possibility at this point. 

 

Telvin showed a flash or three on Sunday.  That was good to see.  Anyone making a play from any linebacker position is a nice surprise right now. If a 5th rounder can become part of the solution moving forward - that's a very good thing.

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There are 2 reasons people feel like this is a bigger rebuild (and it is, albeit still a rebuild):

 

1.) Dave cut/traded more in the first year than Gene did.

 

2.) The leftover players that Gene kept were significantly better than the players Dave has leftover from the prior regimes.

 

Garrard, MJD, Greg Jones, Montell Owens,  Lewis,  Hughes, Black, Manuwai, Meester, Nwaneri, Mincey, Harvey, Durant, D. Smith, Mathis, and Scobee are way better than the 13 Dave has kept.

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Gene Smith's roster was 16 out of the 53 man roster left from Shack.  Not much of a difference.

You are getting hung up on the number of individuals. Name the ones Gene Smith inherited and compare the talent. There is a huge gap there. 

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How is blowing a team up to rebuild not considered a rebuild just because you were on the prior staff? 

What is you definition of "blow up" because Gene was playing with damn near the same roster Jack had in 2007 in 2010. He cut a lot of the bottom half but the online was basically the same, qb the same, defense was pretty much the same. That is not a rebuild. This current roster is completely different from 2012

 

The starters signal the rebuild not the bottom guys. Genes startes were carry over. Caldwells are not. 

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Ugh.... here we go again with "we're in a rebuild".... or.. "we'll be competitive again in a few seasons." We've all been saying that since 2011, which was 4 seasons ago. The reality of it all is that Caldwell's plan for success is just not working....It's actually the worst plan in the NFL and our record shows that. You can't just bank on draft picks and not go for skilled free agents... it's really a dumb strategy to be honest, and it's not like Shad knows what the hell is going on, I think we all know that. Rebuilds shouldnt take multiple Gm's and head coaches, a good rebuild can take as short as one year. you guys are really cheating yourselves by believing all this rebuild crap

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Ugh.... here we go again with "we're in a rebuild".... or.. "we'll be competitive again in a few seasons." We've all been saying that since 2011, which was 4 seasons ago. The reality of it all is that Caldwell's plan for success is just not working....It's actually the worst plan in the NFL and our record shows that. You can't just bank on draft picks and not go for skilled free agents... it's really a dumb strategy to be honest, and it's not like Shad knows what the hell is going on, I think we all know that. Rebuilds shouldnt take multiple Gm's and head coaches, a good rebuild can take as short as one year. you guys are really cheating yourselves by believing all this rebuild crap

You say the last 4 years but Caldwell has been her for two. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about his approach. None the less the team has sucked way before he got here. I guess you suggest to fire him and start over again in the off-season? 

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Going winless is also unrealistic

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Yup.  They completely ignore just how massively this roster was gutted when Caldwell took over. 

 

Gene Smith didn't rebuild anything.  He made a few fringe changes, but stuck with most of what he inherited from Shack Harris.  Caldwell took this thing down to the foundation, and even a little deeper than that.  This isn't a rebuild.  It's a build from the ground up.  Most here recognized that was going to take time, especially when they've been saying they wanted to do the bulk of their building through the draft.  That takes time.  Even the best GMs don't nail it on every draft pick, so you can figure they're going to hopefully have a 50-60% success rate in order for this approach to be successful in 2-3 years. 

 

Bull!


 

Gene Smith gutted the roster just as much as Caldwell did. He even did it at most of the same positions. Gene did inherit slightly better players than Dave, but the position changes, for what they were worth, were essentially the same. They both even drafted a LT in the 1st round tro replace an existing effective LT.


 

I hope you're not suggesting that Caldwell has done well just because he's better than Gene Smith. You're not allowed to divide by zero.


 

I do have hope for the future based on the 2014 draft and especially how Bortles looks. Gene made a terrible mess of his 2nd draft. But the first year rebuild by Caldwell was frighteningly identical to Gene's first year rebuild.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

What is you definition of "blow up" because Gene was playing with damn near the same roster Jack had in 2007 in 2010. He cut a lot of the bottom half but the online was basically the same, qb the same, defense was pretty much the same. That is not a rebuild. This current roster is completely different from 2012

 

The starters signal the rebuild not the bottom guys. Genes startes were carry over. Caldwells are not. 

 

2010 vs. 2007: New LT and RT and both guards. Two new DTs. Two new LBs. Two new WRs. New SS. One new CB. Those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my (alcohol handicapped) head.


 

Yep. "Damn near the same roster."

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Going winless is also unrealistic

Not

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What is you definition of "blow up" because Gene was playing with damn near the same roster Jack had in 2007 in 2010. He cut a lot of the bottom half but the online was basically the same, qb the same, defense was pretty much the same. That is not a rebuild. This current roster is completely different from 2012

 

The starters signal the rebuild not the bottom guys. Genes startes were carry over. Caldwells are not. 

 

12 starters for Gene as opposed to 8 for Dave - 10 if you count Henne and Alualu.  Not a huge difference considering.  

 

This is the 3rd time this team has been blown up.  

 

I'm not disparaging Dave either.  I actually like him and what he's done.  The only problem I've ever had was Dave using the #2 pick to replace an already good tackle and getting pennies on the return... On top of the fact that the replacement was a downgrade.  The way Dave has went about building this team, I approve.  He can't improve everything in 2 offseasons.  He needs to open the check book and use some money on difference makers in free agency this offseason.

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2010 vs. 2007: New LT and RT and both guards. Two new DTs. Two new LBs. Two new WRs. New SS. One new CB. Those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my (alcohol handicapped) head.


 

Yep. "Damn near the same roster."

Can you name the two new LB's, WRs and gaurds please? MSW was here already, Uche, Henderson, 

 

 

In 2010 we had Garrard, MJD, Greg Jones, MSW, Lewis, Vince Man, Uche, Meester, Harvey, Mincey, Durant, Daryl Smith, Rasheen, Scobee, as starters. Like I said you can play musically chairs with the bottom half but those were the main contributers in 2010. That is the same team. I could care less what Middleton did because he was the bottom half. The fact remains that the only player he brought in that contibuted that year and is still relavent was Pot roast.  

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Jackso...ars_season

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12 starters for Gene as opposed to 8 for Dave - 10 if you count Henne and Alualu.  Not a huge difference considering.  

 

This is the 3rd time this team has been blown up.  

 

I'm not disparaging Dave either.  I actually like him and what he's done.  The only problem I've ever had was Dave using the #2 pick to replace an already good tackle and getting pennies on the return... On top of the fact that the replacement was a downgrade.  The way Dave has went about building this team, I approve.  He can't improve everything in 2 offseasons.  He needs to open the check book and use some money on difference makers in free agency this offseason.

Im sorry but David did not inherit anyone close to MJD in his prime. He received Henne and Gabbert as his qb's. Gene got a team that was capable of 8 wins already. David got a 2 win team. It really isn't close. 

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Im sorry but David did not inherit anyone close to MJD in his prime. He received Henne and Gabbert as his qb's. Gene got a team that was capable of 8 wins already. David got a 2 win team. It really isn't close. 

 

We're not talking about who inherited the better team.  Every single person has said Gene inherited the better team so I don't know who you arguing with in regards to that point.

 

The fact is that they both completely rebuilt their teams.

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OK, how much longer until this rebuild is complete, realistically speaking?

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I survived the Gus Bradley Error.

OK, how much longer until this rebuild is complete, realistically speaking?

2-3 years.   IF we have good drafts and do better in free agency than we have the past 2 years. 

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