The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next.
 - 

Abraham Lin
<span style="font-family:'lucida sans unicode', 'lucida grande', sans-serif;font-weight:bold;background-color:transparent;">coln</span>

 

What a maroon... - Bugs Bunny

I'm not sure what's more absurd. You digging up a quote from 150 years ago to as proof of a conspiracy theory. Or that you actually believe it is proof. Logic and rational reason must not be needed in your world view. 

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I'm not sure what's more absurd. You digging up a quote from 150 years ago to as proof of a conspiracy theory. Or that you actually believe it is proof. Logic and rational reason must not be needed in your world view. 

 

What's more ridiculous is that Lincoln never said it.  There's no substantial evidence that he ever said any such thing.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

What's more ridiculous is that Lincoln never said it.  There's no substantial evidence that he ever said any such thing.

It's a cover up by the dumb college educated commies

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BURN THE HERETICS!!!!!!!!          

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

BURN THE HERETICS!!!!!!!!          

Sure thing Bachman

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i am going to post before reading so if I repeat a previous position please forgive me.

 

I went to school in the late 70's and early 80's.  Back then we were taught how to think, not what to think.  This common core curriculum is nothing but brain washing.  Everything is based on a standard answer and individual thought is punished.  What is amazing to me that many of the same people that sport bumper stickers stating: A mind is like a parachute, they only work when the are open, are the same people that are for this type of education.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

One of my favorite all-time "heroes", Steve Wozniak discussed education in an interview.  What he says is true.  Children are not allowed to use their minds/imagination when exploring new concepts and ideas.  In the current government indoctrination facilities schools, children are "taught" to always come up with the same answer.  They don't teach "concepts" to children, they teach them how to pass a test and how to memorize things.  If the student can pass the test, then it's considered a "success".

 

Some of the absolute "dumbest" people that I have worked with are EE grads that can't hook up a simple battery system.  For those of you that aren't familiar with "EE" it's an Electronics Engineer.  I worked with a couple of them in my last job, one with a bachelors degree and the other holds a masters degree.  Neither one was familiar with or knew how to use simple test equipment (an oscilloscope).

 

Think of past history and what was accomplished prior to the establishment of the Department of Education.  Nuclear technology, stealth technology, computers and even the internet was developed by people using pencil and paper as well as slide rules.  Heck, even Steve Wozniak's design of the first Apple Computer were hand drawn with pencil and paper.  The UNIX Operating System which runs much of what we use today (albeit variants of UNIX such as Linux, Mac OS and Android) was developed way back by Dennis Ritchie and Michael Kerrigan, both using pencil, paper and their minds.  The also developed the C programming language which runs most of what we see every day.

 

People were encouraged to use their minds to reach certain goals.  Look at the technology that put a man on the moon.

 

Nowadays look at how children are being "indoctrinated" by our current government indoctrination facilities schools.  They are being taught to sing about the dear leader President as if he is "the savior".  Colleges tend to "preach" the liberal agenda and continue the "indoctrination".

 

I could go on and on and even cite examples of how the current indoctrination school system is such a failure in this country.

Well stated!

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

 

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It's why people don't like TMD very much.


 

 

 

Imagine how much money would be saved if we cut back on our military spending, which outspends the next 7 nations combined.  Our department of defense wastes money like it grows on trees.  


I have to laugh every time the public schools are called 'indoctrination'.  I attended public school, and was certainly not brainwashed.    In fact nobody I know was.  All those that say that can bring up are the president song (at one elementary school mind you) and how they're taking prayer out of school (even though prayer in school is not forbidden, it just can't be lead by a teacher, which makes sense because that would be indoctrination)


Subsidizing private schools would accomplish nothing.  Many private schools only accept certain students, and certainly have no reason to accept students with disabilities.  Then you would have the rise of schools opening up just to make a profit.  And you certainly have parents who still wouldn't be able to afford the other costs of going to private school.  


Challenge students to put man on the moon again?   Surely if the private schools are so wonderful, those students should have put a man on mars by now, right?  I mean that's what you're asking of public schools, so why can't I ask it of private schools?  Neil Armstrong attended public school btw.

 

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Curious, when did you attend that public school?

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

I'm not sure what's more absurd. You digging up a quote from 150 years ago to as proof of a conspiracy theory. Or that you actually believe it is proof. Logic and rational reason must not be needed in your world view. 

 

Who said it was a conspiracy? The simple fact is that what kids are taught today impacts the country tomorrow because these morons we're graduating with their heads loaded with the liberal worldview are going to vote.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I have to laugh every time the public schools are called 'indoctrination'.  I attended public school, and was certainly not brainwashed.    In fact nobody I know was. 

 

How, exactly, would you know? All you have to go on is what you were taught. which includes you believing what the indoctrinators taught you. That's what's wrong with today's snowflakes, they've been taught that they are special and smart with nothing to concrete on which to base the belief except that their teachers told them so.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Curious, when did you attend that public school?

14 years ago.


But I have three kids in public school right now.  They haven't been indoctrinated either.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

i am going to post before reading so if I repeat a previous position please forgive me.

 

I went to school in the late 70's and early 80's.  Back then we were taught how to think, not what to think.  This common core curriculum is nothing but brain washing.  Everything is based on a standard answer and individual thought is punished.  What is amazing to me that many of the same people that sport bumper stickers stating: A mind is like a parachute, they only work when the are open, are the same people that are for this type of education.

 

As a teacher and someone who is NOT a big fan of Common Core I have to disagree with the idea that it is based on having a standard answer.  As a matter of fact, that is the argument that many  people have with it, that if you can explain how you come to your answers you can still get points.  I know that in Social Studies they encourage students not to memorize facts, but focus on argumentation and cause and effect relationships.

 

I know that in the Social Studies curriculum changes encourage thinking like the example below:

 

Old way - Explain why Gettysburg was the turning point of the Civil War.

 

New Way - Explain which of the following battles best represents the turning point of the Civil War:

 

Antietam               (You could argue it discouraged foreign powers from entering the war (battle itself and issuance of Emancipation Proclamation) and thus killed any chance the South                                                                had of winning)

Vicksburg             (You could argue that the North gains control of the Mississippi and divides the South in half)

Gettysburg           (Last major offensive in the North for the South and no major victories after it)

 

Each could be correct, and there is no real definitive answer.  When I grew up the right answer was Gettysburg, period.

 

I agree that Common Core limits my ability as a teacher to focus on areas of interest for students and that the tests that measure the students growth focus on things other than the historical thinking skills that they want the kids to use, but I think if we want to fix it or get real change we can't have statements that try to identify it as one particular way, that it is only detrimental.

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“It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.”
― Albert Camus

As a teacher and someone who is NOT a big fan of Common Core I have to disagree with the idea that it is based on having a standard answer.  As a matter of fact, that is the argument that many  people have with it, that if you can explain how you come to your answers you can still get points.  I know that in Social Studies they encourage students to not memorize facts, but focus on argumentation and cause and effect relationships.

 

I know that in the Social Studies curriculum changes encourage thinking like the example below:

 

Old way - Explain why Gettysburg was the turning point of the Civil War.

 

New Way - Explain which of the following battles best represents the turning point of the Civil War:

 

Antietam               (You could argue it prevented foreign powers from entering the war and thus killed any chance the South had of winning)

Vicksburg             (You could argue that the North gains control of the Mississippi and divides the South in half)

Gettysburg           (Last major offensive in the North for the South and no major victories after it)

 

Each could be correct, and there is no real definitive answer.  When I grew up the right answer was Gettysburg, period.

 

I agree that Common Core limits my ability as a teacher to focus on areas of interest for students and that the tests that measure the students growth focus on things other than the historical thinking skills that they want the kids to use, but I think if we want to fix it or get real change we can't have statements that try to identify it as one particular way, that it is only detrimental.

 

I'm struggling to find fault with the "new way" in your example.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

I'm struggling to find fault with the "new way" in your example.

 

I think a lot of the criticism from teachers come from the inability to slow down or spend extra time on certain areas the kids find interesting because we need to cover all the info before state testing which begins the first week May for my subject (6 weeks before the end of the year.) The pacing guides pace the course with the assumption we teach until the final day of the year without taking into account we need to finish 6 weeks early (not to mention all of the time we lose kids from our classes because they are taking other state tests).

 

Another complaint, from a teacher perspective, is that my students take a multiple choice exam to determine if they have shown growth (and if I keep my job.)  It is hard to measure the argumentation skills and other historical thinking that are the basis for Common Core curriculum when the students are taking a multiple choice test.  It encourages teachers to teach to the test, which everyone, including teachers, would rather avoid.

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“It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.”
― Albert Camus

What's more ridiculous is that Lincoln never said it.  There's no substantial evidence that he ever said any such thing.

 

 

The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next.
 - 

Abraham Lin
<span style="font-family:'lucida sans unicode', 'lucida grande', sans-serif;font-weight:bold;background-color:transparent;">coln (unconfirmed)</span>

 

What a maroon... - Bugs Bunny

 

Happy now? The principle still applies.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Happy now? The principle still applies.

Sure if you just want to assume schools are indoctrinating children and brain washing them rather than country just natural progressing into liberal and progressive ideals. You clearly do. Hence you claims of this massive educational conspiracy.

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Sure if you just want to assume schools are indoctrinating children and brain washing them rather than country just natural progressing into liberal and progressive ideals. You clearly do. Hence you claims of this massive educational conspiracy.

There is no natural progression, we move in the direction we teach our children. That's why control of education by the government is a plank of both Marxism and social progressives.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

There is no natural progression, we move in the direction we teach our children. That's why control of education by the government is a plank of both Marxism and social progressives.

If you truly think that way then I guess you and your ilk are just screwed huh.

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Sure if you just want to assume schools are indoctrinating children and brain washing them rather than country just natural progressing into liberal and progressive ideals. You clearly do. Hence you claims of this massive educational conspiracy.

 

The natural progression is something people often forget about.  The rise of liberal principals and progressive ideals, whether you agree with them or not, are certainly embedded in social and economic transitions.  Unfortunately, the mere mention of Granger Laws, Populism as a political movement, the establishment of its principals through Progressivism in the late 19th and early 20th century and of course the exciting nature of Hoover's response to the Great Depression are enough to make some peoples' eyes glaze over.  It is complicated, and at times boring to understand, but its all there if you really dig into it.  It, like most social change (the Rise of Conservatism, Imperialism, the abolition movement etc.) grew from a complicated past.

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“It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.”
― Albert Camus

If you truly think that way then I guess you and your ilk are just screwed huh.

Nope, we have more guns.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato