I listed to some of the presser, and Dave mentioned that while we're obviously happy with the draft class, it never falls to where you get "everyone" you initially targeted. 

 

I'm going to guess perhaps that they might have targeted Jordan Matthews over Robinson, but thats just a guess. 

 

If not Lee, then I dunno. 

 

 

 

But as you pointed out in the past....sometimes you're better off not getting your initial targets...as in 1998 Coughlin's #1 target was RB Curtis Enis......The Bears took him, so we settled for Fred Taylor, instead.... B)

 

I don't know what other guys they had in mind, but I don't know that I've ever seen a plan to get complementary receivers like this in the same draft, either.  That's research for another day.

 

As to your closing point...absolutely right.

 

But the draft fell great to get these two receivers.

 

I typically have not been overly impressed with Penn St WRs in the past, but I believe Robinson can be the best out of them all.

 

He's bigger than OJ McDuffie and Bobby Engram, and has better change of direction/open field running than Joe Jurevicius, and is flat out better than stiffs like Kenny Jackson and Gregg Garrity.  Plus, he was there under Bill O'Brien, who has worked in the NFL before.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I don't know what other guys they had in mind, but I don't know that I've ever seen a plan to get complementary receivers like this in the same draft, either.  That's research for another day.

 

 

 

 

1990 draft, after Buddy Ryan cut Cris Carter because "all he does is catch TD passes".... they drafted Mike Bellamy, Calvin Williams and "Arkansas" Fred Barnett in the same draft. 

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1990 draft, after Buddy Ryan cut Cris Carter because "all he does is catch TD passes".... they drafted Mike Bellamy, Calvin Williams and "Arkansas" Fred Barnett in the same draft. 

Williams and Barnett were fantastic, but for some reason they both struck me as the same kind of guy.  The true crime of that era Eagles team is that Ryan was never able/willing to build a competent offensive line.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Williams and Barnett were fantastic, but for some reason they both struck me as the same kind of guy.  The true crime of that era Eagles team is that Ryan was never able/willing to build a competent offensive line.

 

Thats sorta true....they were similar in build...although Calvin Williams was generally the underneath guy, whereas Barnett was more of the home run hitter. (remember the 96 yard TD play bailing out Cunningham vs Buffalo?? Mike Bellamy turned out to be a bust. 

 

Yep, that Buddy Ryan Eagles team had talent out the yazoo, except for the OL.....stiffs like Joe Conwell, Reggie Singletary, Dave Rimington, etc  etc....thats why they tried to fix it by trading for that steroid case Ron Solt in 1988. 

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Thats sorta true....they were similar in build...although Calvin Williams was generally the underneath guy, whereas Barnett was more of the home run hitter. (remember the 96 yard TD play bailing out Cunningham vs Buffalo?? Mike Bellamy turned out to be a bust. 

 

Yep, that Buddy Ryan Eagles team had talent out the yazoo, except for the OL.....stiffs like Joe Conwell, Reggie Singletary, Dave Rimington, etc  etc....thats why they tried to fix it by trading for that steroid case Ron Solt in 1988. 

Fortunately for the Jaguars, I think they have/will avoid the sins of prior defensive coaches like Ryan and JDR.

 

Ryan was never able to build a credible OL.  With Joeckel, Beadles, and Pasztor at RT, we appear to have the makings of at least a decent OL.

 

JDR was never able to get competent WRs, except for a couple of seasons, never had a competent LT, and had competent at best QBs between BL and DG.

 

Aside from the proper development of Bortles, I'm confident about the offense for years to come.  Not that I LACK confidence in Bortles' development, per se.  It's just that developing QBs seems to be the hardest thing for NFL teams to do.  Bradley and Caldwell seem to have a good plan in place.

 

I just hope Bradley can develop a defense at least as good as the 2005-2006 Jaguars and those Ryan era defenses.

 

BTW I remember watching that play as it unfolded live.  Was a junior in college then.  I'm still amazed by that play.  Great individual performances on both sides of the ball and an incredible play.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Fortunately for the Jaguars, I think they have/will avoid the sins of prior defensive coaches like Ryan and JDR.

 

Ryan was never able to build a credible OL.  With Joeckel, Beadles, and Pasztor at RT, we appear to have the makings of at least a decent OL.

 

JDR was never able to get competent WRs, except for a couple of seasons, never had a competent LT, and had competent at best QBs between BL and DG.

 

Aside from the proper development of Bortles, I'm confident about the offense for years to come.  Not that I LACK confidence in Bortles' development, per se.  It's just that developing QBs seems to be the hardest thing for NFL teams to do.  Bradley and Caldwell seem to have a good plan in place.

 

I just hope Bradley can develop a defense at least as good as the 2005-2006 Jaguars and those Ryan era defenses.

 

If Bradley can develop a defense here that is on par with Ryan's D in Philly, the Jaguars will probably win one or more SB's over the his tenure. The Jags offense in its blueprint right now is primed to develop to a higher ceiling than that Ryan offense. Ryan's offense had some good players on it, such as the aforementioned WR, and Keith Jackson/ Keith Byars...but lets face it - his offense wasn't much more intricate than "Hey Randall....go out there and make me 5 big plays per game, and we'll win most of our games....

 

Problem was, that worked fairly well in the regular season....in the playoffs with better competition and better coaching on the other side??.....notsomuch. That Rams DC Fritz Shurmur ( I think his name was) totally stymied Randall in that 1989 wild card game by implimenting a 3-8 defense for basically the whole game. Joe Gibbs in 1990 held the Randall led Eagles to 6 points in that WC game. 

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If Bradley can develop a defense here that is on par with Ryan's D in Philly, the Jaguars will probably win one or more SB's over the his tenure. The Jags offense in its blueprint right now is primed to develop to a higher ceiling than that Ryan offense. Ryan's offense had some good players on it, such as the aforementioned WR, and Keith Jackson/ Keith Byars...but lets face it - his offense wasn't much more intricate than "Hey Randall....go out there and make me 5 big plays per game, and we'll win most of our games....

 

Problem was, that worked fairly well in the regular season....in the playoffs with better competition and better coaching on the other side??.....notsomuch. That Rams DC Fritz Shurmur ( I think his name was) totally stymied Randall in that 1989 wild card game by implimenting a 3-8 defense for basically the whole game. Joe Gibbs in 1990 held the Randall led Eagles to 6 points in that WC game. 

I think ultimately the D will end up somewhere between JDR's and Ryan's...which would be just fine with me, because with the offense looking like we think it will, that should put us in SB contention.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I think ultimately the D will end up somewhere between JDR's and Ryan's...which would be just fine with me, because with the offense looking like we think it will, that should put us in SB contention.

 

I would tend to agree. I think Bradley's defense will eventually top out as better than JDR's, but not quite as good as Buddy's. Buddy also had Reggie White, and I don't see that level of player on the horizon for this defense at the moment. 

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I would tend to agree. I think Bradley's defense will eventually top out as better than JDR's, but not quite as good as Buddy's. Buddy also had Reggie White, and I don't see that level of player on the horizon for this defense at the moment. 

 

You're underestimating Tyson Alualu.

 

hee heeeee

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You're underestimating Tyson Alualu.

 

hee heeeee

 

 

...Surely I'm not.....Buddy Ryans's D had Mike Golic on it for a few years...lol :teehee: 

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I listed to some of the presser, and Dave mentioned that while we're obviously happy with the draft class, it never falls to where you get "everyone" you initially targeted. 

 

I'm going to guess perhaps that they might have targeted Jordan Matthews over Robinson, but thats just a guess. 

 

If not Lee, then I dunno. 

 

 

 

But as you pointed out in the past....sometimes you're better off not getting your initial targets...as in 1998 Coughlin's #1 target was RB Curtis Enis......The Bears took him, so we settled for Fred Taylor, instead.... B)

 

It was actually Fred Taylor and Donovin Darius.   We offered both the 9th and the 25th picks for the 5th pick and the Bears almost took it.  

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It was actually Fred Taylor and Donovin Darius.   We offered both the 9th and the 25th picks for the 5th pick and the Bears almost took it.  

THAT was a dodged bullet!

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

The posting of "Jordan Matthews" appeared to be a substantial gaff on RR's part. The reaction by DC and response to me was very telling.


Above and beyond that. The WR's darfted and UFDA's exude a feeling not felt since the TC days.


There will be some competition.


HeadSlap

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When they have no time,  they think about it!

When they go down hard, they think about it!

 

Just watch Peyton, Andrew, Caep even Mr. Bundchen.

This is a pretty good point. 

 

They really are setting up Bortles to succeed, or have the best chance to. 

 

When you contrast the way the current regime is going about developing Bortles as opposed to how the previous regime handed the Gabbert drafting and subsequent development, its like night and day. 

 

Not only was Gabbert forced out there before he was ready, but his weapons were a joke. It was hardly a good environment for a young QB to develop some confidence. 

 

Indeed.   If Henne can succeed with these guys, and then Bortles doesn't, then we will know that the problem is Bortles and not the players around him.   How many arguments did we used to get into about whether Gabbert was holding the ball too long or his line wasn't protecting him, or if Gabbert threw a wild pass or if the WR ran the wrong route?    I want to put Bortles out there when there is much less of the question about the surrounding cast.  AND, when he can have confidence that he can throw to where the receiver is going to be, without worrying about whether the receiver is going to be there.  

 

And also, it seems like it'll be a lot easier to train the new receivers when we have a veteran QB out there.  

 

What happened to Gabbert is not going to be repeated.   If Bortles is a failure, there will be much less debate as to why.  

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I'm glad we have a GM that can identify talent and arrange his board accordingly.

 

I'm glad we have a GM that trusts his scouts and doesn't want to influence them to alter their true opinions.

 

I'm glad we have an owner who is willing to back off and let the football people make the picks.

 

Agreed.  There have been opportunities the owner to be tempted to step in and issue a mandate to go after specific players.  Khan opened that door when he had Gene Smith put together a deal to trade for him in Denver.  The organization dodged a bullet at the time when Tebow chose NY.  Since then, after hiring a new GM and head coach, Khan has proven to be an owner who is deferential to the football guys, and focuses the bulk of his attention on building the brand.  That's exactly what you want from your owner. 

 

We now have a GM who understands how to put his board together, who trusts his scouts, and has a great partnership with his head coach.  His freshman effort was solid, but he came back in draft #2 and had one of the better drafts in franchise history. 

 

There's a very different vibe coming from this organization in 2014 compared to years past.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Agreed.  There have been opportunities the owner to be tempted to step in and issue a mandate to go after specific players.  Khan opened that door when he had Gene Smith put together a deal to trade for him in Denver.  The organization dodged a bullet at the time when Tebow chose NY.  Since then, after hiring a new GM and head coach, Khan has proven to be an owner who is deferential to the football guys, and focuses the bulk of his attention on building the brand.  That's exactly what you want from your owner.

 

We now have a GM who understands how to put his board together, who trusts his scouts, and has a great partnership with his head coach.  His freshman effort was solid, but he came back in draft #2 and had one of the better drafts in franchise history. 

 

There's a very different vibe coming from this organization in 2014 compared to years past.

Exactly.

 

As excited as we are about this draft, Khan could have easily interjected himself, pushed for the maximum buzz, and forced a Manziel pick.

 

Now short term, the media and fan base would have gone nuts with excitement-even more than it is now.

 

Longer term, though, I don't think that would have been the best for the franchise.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Exactly.

 

As excited as we are about this draft, Khan could have easily interjected himself, pushed for the maximum buzz, and forced a Manziel pick.

 

Now short term, the media and fan base would have gone nuts with excitement-even more than it is now.

 

Longer term, though, I don't think that would have been the best for the franchise.

 

I think we're fortunate that we have an owner who learns from his potential mistakes.  That's a good thing.  He could have very easily pushed for Manziel.  He didn't.  He let his guys do their job. 

 

Fortunately, draft picks should be about the long term.  Caldwell's comments about Manziel being "ready" now were completely misread by people.  They felt Bortles had a higher ceiling.  Hopefully they're right.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Luck is like a flip of the coin. Sometimes it works and other times it fails. Seems like the coin went the right way this time around. Jags got both Marqise Lee and Allen Robinson? What a deal!

I just read an interview with Caldwell this morning where he indicated he didn't anticipate going WR back to back.

 

I interpret this to mean that he would have taken two receivers, but likely in different rounds.

 

But I like that when a guy he liked dropped, he was willing to trade up to get him.  Those extra picks coming from the Thomas and Monroe trades came in handy, and I'm glad he used them.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I just read an interview with Caldwell this morning where he indicated he didn't anticipate going WR back to back.

 

I interpret this to mean that he would have taken two receivers, but likely in different rounds.

 

But I like that when a guy he liked dropped, he was willing to trade up to get him.  Those extra picks coming from the Thomas and Monroe trades came in handy, and I'm glad he used them.

 

Ahhh, interesting. Then that says that he felt we just couldn't pass up the Robinson opportunity. 

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I just read an interview with Caldwell this morning where he indicated he didn't anticipate going WR back to back.

 

I interpret this to mean that he would have taken two receivers, but likely in different rounds.

 

But I like that when a guy he liked dropped, he was willing to trade up to get him.  Those extra picks coming from the Thomas and Monroe trades came in handy, and I'm glad he used them.

Unlike what we've seen in the past with our drafting, at least he didn't shy away from making the back to back WR pick when it presented itself. 

 

I think they were very strategic in how they used the extra draft picks to move up, and they didn't burn huge value to get quality players. Good things.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.