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Ninja#117 · 10-09-2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:THIS ^^^^^^

I wish the Caldwell apologists would just take a look at the above.

Who is to say that he didnt so just that? THere is no evidence otherwise other then the Browns possibly wanting to offer a 2nd day pick which would likely be a 3rd and as another poster said might just be them saying so in hindsight when they likely had zero intention of trying to outbid baltimore pick wise.

On another note what if monroe was demanding a trade and then only offer at the time was Baltimore? There was already talk of him not fitting into the cut blocking shceme and questions about his willingness to get nasty in cut blocking were coming up. Sounds like a potential locker room issue being avoided while finding something for a guy who didnt want to be there and was leaving anyways.

Jags2DaDeath · 10-09-2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:THIS ^^^^^^

I wish the Caldwell apologists would just take a look at the above.

Caldwell apologists? lol

;

;

AP06 · 10-09-2013, 10:36 AM

on topic -

since 1999, we have only drafted 3 QBs as the OP mentioned. add in rob johnson in 1995 (4th round) and jonathan quinn in 1998 (3rd round), we have drafted 5 QBs in the history of the franchise.

to compare, the panthers have drafted 8 true QBs since 1995.

texans - 6 since 2002.

seahwks - 16 since 1976

bucs - 24 since 1976

that should compare the 'newest' teams in the league. if you do the math, we spend the least amount of draft picks on QBs of the 5 teams listed per year (average).

a little more digging got me at a list of QBs taken in the draft from 1970 to 2008: 444 QBs taken in 38 years would be on average 11.7 QBs taken on average per draft. Give or take how many teams there are from 1970 to 2008 (and draft selections per draft), VERY roughly, I would say a team picks a QB 40.04% per draft. We on average, take a QB 27.7% per draft and have never drafted two QBs in a single draft. all five teams listed above are above average QB drafters (by sheer volume).

Ninja#117 · 10-09-2013, 10:58 AM

@Apatel06: Good numbers and research.

Jags2DaDeath · 10-09-2013, 11:00 AM

Having said all that, we will take at least one next year

;

;

AP06 · 10-09-2013, 11:16 AM

Quote:@Apatel06: Good numbers and research.

thanks, it is always amazing to me that text to table and excel are awesome tools.

FJohnson · 10-09-2013, 11:37 AM

Quote:Since '02 we've only drafted 3 QB's, Garrard, Leftwich and Gabbert if I'm not mistaken. (Garrard in the 4th, Lefty and Gabby in the 1st)

Does anyone know where we rank among the other franchises in regards to how many QB's each team has taken over that span? I would imagine that we are probably near last in drafting QB's over that span.

I kind of remember someone making a post about this a couple of years ago with the stats but I can't find any info on it and I really don't feel like looking at every teams draft classes since '02.

Pretty crazy to think though, for over a decade we have only drafted 3 QB's. At least we know that number will increase next April.

TEAM

QB Drafted

Arizona Cardinals

5

Atlanta Falcons

4

Baltimore Ravens

7

Buffalo Bills

3

Carolina Panthers

5

Chicago Bears

5

Cincinnati Bengals

4

Cleveland Browns

5

Dallas Cowboys

1

Denver Broncos

6

Detroit Lions

4

Green Bay Packers

6

Houston Texans

6

Indianapolis Colts

4

Jacksonville Jaguars

3

Kansas City Chiefs

2

Miami Dolphins

4

Minnesota Vikings

5

New England Patriots

6

New Orleans Saints

3

New York Giants

3

New York Jets

5

Oakland Raiders

3

Philadelphia Eagles

4

Pittsburgh Steelers

4

San Diego Chargers

4

San Francisco 49ers

6

Seattle Seahawks

5

St. Louis Rams

4

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

4

Tennessee Titans

3

Washington Redskins

7

HURRICANE!!! · 10-09-2013, 12:02 PM

Quote:on topic -

Amazing -- somebody that actually reads the question without getting sidetracked

good job !!

Geen · 10-09-2013, 03:53 PM

Quote:on topic -

since 1999, we have only drafted 3 QBs as the OP mentioned. add in rob johnson in 1995 (4th round) and jonathan quinn in 1998 (3rd round), we have drafted 5 QBs in the history of the franchise.

to compare, the panthers have drafted 8 true QBs since 1995.

texans - 6 since 2002.

seahwks - 16 since 1976

bucs - 24 since 1976

that should compare the 'newest' teams in the league. if you do the math, we spend the least amount of draft picks on QBs of the 5 teams listed per year (average).

a little more digging got me at a list of QBs taken in the draft from 1970 to 2008: 444 QBs taken in 38 years would be on average 11.7 QBs taken on average per draft. Give or take how many teams there are from 1970 to 2008 (and draft selections per draft), VERY roughly, I would say a team picks a QB 40.04% per draft. We on average, take a QB 27.7% per draft and have never drafted two QBs in a single draft. all five teams listed above are above average QB drafters (by sheer volume).

Takes 23 posts to get an on topic post, might be a board record! Doubt it though.

Thanks a lot for the info man. Appreciate it. Very interesting.

60% of the time, It works Everytime...

Geen · 10-09-2013, 03:54 PM

Quote:

TEAM

QB Drafted

Also thanks for that info as well!

60% of the time, It works Everytime...

***FBT*** · 10-09-2013, 05:59 PM

Quote:If this is true than it is an incredible indictment on the incompetence of Caldwell and has to be extremely worrisome to Khan.

Caldwell executed a multi-million $ transaction when he could have potentially received more than twice the value he actually traded for?!?!?!?!?

The market held a second round pick and our GM was not keen enough to sense that regardless of who called who first . He is not intertwined in the grapevine to where he could have sniffed that out?

Now I am wondering about the idiocy we are extending by not getting rid of MJD. We can draft Lache Seastrunk in the second round.

Okay, so was it a 2nd round pick or a 2nd day pick Cleveland supposedly was willing to part ways with? Do you know?

The team got the best value they could for a player who was in the final year of his contract, and a player the team clearly had no plans to extend.

Someone above mentioned tagging him. They weren't going to use the franchise tag on him to keep him here, especially if ultimately they were going to move him to RT (not a good fit for him). If the reports indicating they didn't feel he was a good fit for the scheme they want to run are even remotely accurate, why would they franchise him?

The market didn't hold a 2nd round pick for Monroe. It held a 4th and 5th rounder. We ended up with 2 additional picks, which I doubt will be spots where the Jags will be picking anyway. Those picks are going to be bundled and used to move around in the draft. The more picks we have to do that, the better.

I'm not sure how you could possibly know he's not "intertwined in the grapevine." It sure sounded like the grapevine was reaching out with a trade offer for a player Baltimore probably had a sense was going to be on the free agent market at the end of the year, and they had a need. It's easy for Cleveland to come in after the fact saying they would have given up a 2nd day pick for him. If they had made a better offer, Monroe would probably be a Brown right now. He's not. Maybe Cleveland was just trying to stir the pot to force a division rival to overspend on a player in a trade? Nah. That couldn't possibly be the case, right? That NEVER happens.

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Joe · 10-09-2013, 06:15 PM

Do people seriously think they are a better GM than Caldwell?

Like... all of these years he has been apart of NFL organizations/ dedicating his life to his craft...

Do people honestly think the ravens called with an offer and afterwards, Caldwell stuck his fingers in his ears and started stomping his feet, refusing to listen to other offers?

Get real. Caldwell might not be the best GM in the NFL, but he is by far the best on The Jacksonville Jaguar 's message board.

the Chiefjag · 10-09-2013, 06:59 PM

We ignored the QB position, like every other GM after drafting their supposed franchise guy, for each year following until it was clear he wasn't the franchise guy we expected.

Garrard was a 4th round pick by Coughlin who thought he'd develop behind Brunell and eventually take over.

Roethlisberger was passed upon the year behind Leftwich because you expected Leftwich to be the franchise guy. It's ignorant to draft two QB's back to back if the first one you expect to be the guy for 15 years. Especially when there was no rookie salary slotting system back then and the cost would have been $50 million each. Didn't work either.

Gabbert was drafted to be the next franchise guy but that didn't work out.

Next up.............QB to be named next April.

Regards...............the Chiefjag

Geen · 10-09-2013, 09:48 PM

So after looking at the 2(edit: 3 posts actually, didn't see yours Chief!) posts directed towards the op, here's what I got from it.

Ravens and Redskins led the way since 02' with 7 QB's taken in the draft. They both drafted the QB's that are starting for their squads right now, and I think its safe to say that they are happy with their starters.

Broncos, Texans, Pats, 49'ers and Packers all drafted 6 QB's since then. Of these 5 teams, 3 of them drafted their starting QB's(Pack, 49'ers, Pats) We can obviously say the Pack and Pats are more than pleased with their QB's, Kaepernick may be having a down year this year, but he showed some good talent last season. The Broncos got the best FA QB in the history of the NFL so they are happy regardless, and the Texans traded with Atlanta for Shaub I believe. I would say that there's definitely some Texans fans that aren't too happy with Shaub as of late. Still, hes been above average at least since they acquired him.

Cards, Panthers, Bears, Browns, Vikings, Jets and Seahawks all drafted 5 QB's since then. Of those 7 teams, as of now 4 of them have drafted their current starting QB, the Jets with Geno, the Seahawks with Wilson, the Panthers with Newton and the Browns with Weeden. Of those 4, Wilson has played the best for his team so far. Geno had a good game on Monday and is still a rookie, could end up being a good player. Newton has been up and down so it's kinda hard to say if people are happy with him in Carolina. Weeden has never impressed me personally, and was recently benched for Hoyer who was looking pretty decent till he was hurt, so Weeden's the starter now. Cutler has his moments, but hes been pretty inconsistent, He's still got some time left in Chicago.

Falcons, Bengals, Lions, Colts, Dolphins, Eagles, Steelers, Chargers, Rams and Bucs drafted 4 QB's since then. Out of those 10 teams, all of them drafted their current starter(Vick is hurt right?). I would say 7 1/2 of those 10 teams are satisfied with their starting QB's. Those teams would be the Falcons, Bengals, Lions, Colts, Dolphins, Steelers and Chargers. I think Rams fans are starting to get a little sick of Bradford personally, I've never thought that much of the guy really. Obviously the Bucs weren't happy with their somewhat recent drafted QB(Freeman) so they cut ties with him and now they have their 4th(?) round pick Glennon in their as the starter. He's a rookie so not much to really say about the guy. I think he's got some potential. The 1/2 I put up is for Nick Foles. I think he could be a good QB, but I'm not sure that Chip Kelly's offense is the type of offense he would be most successful in. He looks good at times though imo.

Bills, Jags, Saints, Giants, Raiders and the tacks have drafted 3 QB's since 02'. Out of those 6 teams, 2 teams are starting QB's they have drafted. The Giants and Raiders(Pryor was in the supplement draft). The 3 starting QB's for the Bills, Jags(Gabbert Sucks) and tacks are injured so the backups are in. I would say out of these groups, the Bills are probably pretty happy so far with Manuel, Locker has stepped up pretty good this season for the tacks. Eli Manning is having a really rough year, and that might be a huge understatement. I can't imagine they are gonna be cutting ties with him very soon though. Pryor has played decently so far for the Raiders, but I don't see him as a long term fixture at QB for the Raiders.

The Chiefs have drafted 2 QB's since 02'. Stanzi was one of them in 2011 I'm pretty sure. Either way, Alex Smith(FA) is doing a good job with them so far. Their fans are definitely happy with that pickup.

And finally the Cowboys come in last place with just 1 QB taken since 02'. It was Stephen McGee in 09'. He hasn't done anything that I'm aware of. But they do have Romo, which they did pickup as a UDFA, so It's almost like they drafted him. Either way, hes been a good player for them imo.

Yeah, so that's that. I don't know why I even decided to post all of that. Kinda bored I suppose. I would do all the percentages and whatnot on it but I'm kind of drunk. Oh well. This is the longest post I've ever made that's for sure. Yippie!

60% of the time, It works Everytime...

JaG4LyFe · 10-10-2013, 12:42 AM

Quote:Do people seriously think they are a better GM than Caldwell?

Like... all of these years he has been apart of NFL organizations/ dedicating his life to his craft...

Do people honestly think the ravens called with an offer and afterwards, Caldwell stuck his fingers in his ears and started stomping his feet, refusing to listen to other offers?

Get real. Caldwell might not be the best GM in the NFL, but he is by far the best on The Jacksonville Jaguar 's message board.

lol

Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

JagsQuest · 10-11-2013, 02:38 AM

Quote:Okay, so was it a 2nd round pick or a 2nd day pick Cleveland supposedly was willing to part ways with? Do you know?

The team got the best value they could for a player who was in the final year of his contract, and a player the team clearly had no plans to extend.

Someone above mentioned tagging him. They weren't going to use the franchise tag on him to keep him here, especially if ultimately they were going to move him to RT (not a good fit for him). If the reports indicating they didn't feel he was a good fit for the scheme they want to run are even remotely accurate, why would they franchise him?

The market didn't hold a 2nd round pick for Monroe. It held a 4th and 5th rounder. We ended up with 2 additional picks, which I doubt will be spots where the Jags will be picking anyway. Those picks are going to be bundled and used to move around in the draft. The more picks we have to do that, the better.

I'm not sure how you could possibly know he's not "intertwined in the grapevine." It sure sounded like the grapevine was reaching out with a trade offer for a player Baltimore probably had a sense was going to be on the free agent market at the end of the year, and they had a need. It's easy for Cleveland to come in after the fact saying they would have given up a 2nd day pick for him. If they had made a better offer, Monroe would probably be a Brown right now. He's not. Maybe Cleveland was just trying to stir the pot to force a division rival to overspend on a player in a trade? Nah. That couldn't possibly be the case, right? That NEVER happens.

My entire response was based on Tommy claiming the Browns were offering a 2nd round pick. He clearly stated 2nd round. If this were to be true then Caldwell did not play his cards correctly.

If Tommy is inaccurately spewing 2nd round trade talk then I retract my comments.