It's amazing that there isn't a whole load of qb talent who have sat behind Manning and Brady. That kind of mentorship would be amazing...

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This whole mentoring thing is nonsense. Hennes job is to know the plays if he's called upon.

I agree....how about Bortles correcting his own mistakes.  If he doesn't realize what he is doing wrong there is no hope.

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A veteran QB can help demonstrate to a young QB what it takes to be prepared from a mental ( classroom ) standpoint.   It's very realistically possible that Chad Henne is trying to provide this type of guidance to Blake Bortles,  despite Bortles' results on the field.   Is Bortles doing his part to be the best he can be as a QB?    The answer to that question could shape the path the Jaguars take in many key ways,  in 2017.

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Blake Bortles not being able to throw a football is the issue.

 

 The # 1 issue with him,  yes. 

 

 IMO,  not the only issue.   Blake Bortles' decision making and/ or reading Defenses is something that's also hurt the team.

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Chad Henne didn't tell Blake to wind up like bugs bunny on the mound.

 

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A veteran QB can help demonstrate to a young QB what it takes to be prepared from a mental ( classroom ) standpoint.   It's very realistically possible that Chad Henne is trying to provide this type of guidance to Blake Bortles,  despite Bortles' results on the field.   Is Bortles doing his part to be the best he can be as a QB?    The answer to that question could shape the path the Jaguars take in many key ways,  in 2017.

As you said mental stand point...Which would be the habits that Blake got from Henne. 3rd year, they are calling Blake a basketcase, Chad Henne was the wrong person to give guidance to Blake IMO because he never had success at this level, so what can you really learn from someone like that. So we can say its on the coaching for allowing someone like Chad to mentor Blake and Blake for not doing his part to be the best qb he can be, but if he is learning from someone like Chad and is doing everything that Chad did, he's getting the same results that Chad got. I'm just saying this could be one of the major reasons for the regression of a rookie qb that looked above average from the start and ended where we are now, Chad Henne Jr... The main reason for the post was to let people know that it could be one of the reasons, but what it seems to come down to overall is that we have the wrong coaching staff.  

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It's amazing that there isn't a whole load of qb talent who have sat behind Manning and Brady. That kind of mentorship would be amazing...

I'm not saying all young qbs who have a great qb to learn from will end up being great or really good. I'm just saying we had a QB who was supposed to be a work in progress from the start, then when he started playing he looked good, (at least above average) . Now he at times looks terrible which he had never looked before this year, those habits that he is learning are starting to show. I don't know if its to late for him to change but  I know Henne should def be released and we need a change in coaching as well.

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Chad looking like ruined 2 qbs.  Can we try for three?

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Bleeding Teal since 1995. The Icon Teal Time Radio aka ctjags

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As you said mental stand point...Which would be the habits that Blake got from Henne. 3rd year, they are calling Blake a basketcase, Chad Henne was the wrong person to give guidance to Blake IMO because he never had success at this level, so what can you really learn from someone like that. So we can say its on the coaching for allowing someone like Chad to mentor Blake and Blake for not doing his part to be the best qb he can be, but if he is learning from someone like Chad and is doing everything that Chad did, he's getting the same results that Chad got. I'm just saying this could be one of the major reasons for the regression of a rookie qb that looked above average from the start and ended where we are now, Chad Henne Jr... The main reason for the post was to let people know that it could be one of the reasons, but what it seems to come down to overall is that we have the wrong coaching staff.  

 

  Each team's situation is different,  as each QB is different.   But one example of a QB who only had limited success playing the QB position at the NFL level, who has made a major impact on the bench as a # 2 QB, is Dan Orlovsky.   To the point that he probably would have been released this summer if not for the invaluable input he provides Matthew Stafford day in,  day out. 

 

  By no means am I remotely close to totally discounting what you mentioned.   It's possible Chad Henne has contributed to Blake Bortles'  struggles.   But from viewing the Jaguars from a distance,  including reading what many people on this Forum that follow the team very closely have mentioned,   my gut feeling is Henne isn't holding Bortles back. 

 

  The Jaguars probably need many more coaches like what Jerry Sullivan provides their WR unit.   Which probably starts at the HC position.   Yet,  more than anything,   the question should be asked,  is Bortles currently mature enough to do the things necessary for him to take his game and his team to a much higher level?   

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It's not all about the competition, who did Tom Brady sit behind? He picked up habits from Drew Bledsoe. He got better because of that and the coaching staff. It wouldn't be on competition now, now its about Tom Brady's legacy so he is going to push himself.

You're assertion was that lack of competition is a factor in Bortles regression. I provided an example where that isn't the case.

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You're assertion was that lack of competition is a factor in Bortles regression. I provided an example where that isn't the case.

 

It is a factor and your comparing someone who is just learning the NFL, to someone like Tom Brady now who could possibly be the greatest qb of all time. So it would be hard to compare the two from that standpoint because Brady has already went thru the beginning stages of his career and learned his habits from whoever, be it Drew Bledsoe or the coaching staff. He is already who he is going to be, so something like lack of competition wouldn't play a role causing regression for him.

 

I can provide a case where Kaepernick didn't do what needed to be done wether it was pushing himself to be better or getting comfortable becuase he was now the starter and lost his position after taking it from Alex Smith.

The same could happen with Dak depending on how it goes after this year. 

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Really reaching here and grasping for straws. It's not Henne's job to lose nor is it his job to coach up Bortles. That's the quarterback coach's job and it's on Bortles to get himself ready physically, mentally, mechanically and fundamentally year in and year out. I am starting to think he just "kind of" wants it but he doesn't really want "it" in the NFL. I keep hearing things about him that you don't want to hear about regarding a franchise quarterback. All of those little field trips out west may not have always been about getting ready for football. That's fine. He's a young man. He has the right to drink and do as he please with his free time. But if you're not in it fully and you're not committed to winning 365 days per year. This team won't go much further with mediocre play at the quarterback position. Because let's be honest here. He's just another Jay Cutler and Ryan Fitzpatrick statistically at this point in his career. He's been factually worse than those two. I think he'll get another chance in 2017 thanks to the incoming draft class being relatively weak at his position and with there more than likely not being a glorified upgrade in free agency to turn to. But that's it for him. 

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

  Each team's situation is different,  as each QB is different.   But one example of a QB who only had limited success playing the QB position at the NFL level, who has made a major impact on the bench as a # 2 QB, is Dan Orlovsky.   To the point that he probably would have been released this summer if not for the invaluable input he provides Matthew Stafford day in,  day out. 

 

  By no means am I remotely close to totally discounting what you mentioned.   It's possible Chad Henne has contributed to Blake Bortles'  struggles.   But from viewing the Jaguars from a distance,  including reading what many people on this Forum that follow the team very closely have mentioned,   my gut feeling is Henne isn't holding Bortles back. 

 

  The Jaguars probably need many more coaches like what Jerry Sullivan provides their WR unit.   Which probably starts at the HC position.   Yet,  more than anything,   the question should be asked,  is Bortles currently mature enough to do the things necessary for him to take his game and his team to a much higher level?   

 

Correct, each situation is different and that is one case.

 

 I didn't say he was holding him back just that his help,mentoring, guidance, ideas, beliefs or whatever he knows about the qb position and the game of football seems to be IMO one of the factors that led to the regression and we are getting results with Blake that are similar results to what we got when Henne was the starter.

 

100% correct. 

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Really reaching here and grasping for straws. It's not Henne's job to lose nor is it his job to coach up Bortles. That's the quarterback coach's job and it's on Bortles to get himself ready physically, mentally, mechanically and fundamentally year in and year out. I am starting to think he just "kind of" wants it but he doesn't really want "it" in the NFL. I keep hearing things about him that you don't want to hear about regarding a franchise quarterback. All of those little field trips out west may not have always been about getting ready for football. That's fine. He's a young man. He has the right to drink and do as he please with his free time. But if you're not in it fully and you're not committed to winning 365 days per year. This team won't go much further with mediocre play at the quarterback position. Because let's be honest here. He's just another Jay Cutler and Ryan Fitzpatrick statistically at this point in his career. He's been factually worse than those two. I think he'll get another chance in 2017 thanks to the incoming draft class being relatively weak at his position and with there more than likely not being a glorified upgrade in free agency to turn to. But that's it for him. 

 

  Like you mentioned,  ' kind of wanting it'  isn't good enough at the QB position in the NFL.   To compete with the best,  you have to prepare like the best and do what it takes to elevate your team.

 

  Before the start of this season,   I thought that having a # 2 QB who would be willing to provide support for Blake Bortles as a peer was the most important job description for the Jaguars at that specific position.  Because of the amount Bortles has regressed this season,  if he's brought back in 2017,  it's even more important to have legit playing competition at the position.   The Jaguars can no longer assume Bortles is a short term or long term solution.    How Bortles responds to this at that point should determine his future with the team.  

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Correct, each situation is different and that is one case.

 

 I didn't say he was holding him back just that his help,mentoring, guidance, ideas, beliefs or whatever he knows about the qb position and the game of football seems to be IMO one of the factors that led to the regression and we are getting results with Blake that are similar results to what we got when Henne was the starter.

 

100% correct. 

 

  I'm wondering though if Chad Henne was the Jags # 2 QB if Bill Belichick or Bruce Arians for example was the team's HC,  how much different the situation and perception would be with the team's QB situation?     Would Blake Bortles have reached the low point that he currently is?

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Really reaching here and grasping for straws. It's not Henne's job to lose nor is it his job to coach up Bortles. That's the quarterback coach's job and it's on Bortles to get himself ready physically, mentally, mechanically and fundamentally year in and year out. I am starting to think he just "kind of" wants it but he doesn't really want "it" in the NFL. I keep hearing things about him that you don't want to hear about regarding a franchise quarterback. All of those little field trips out west may not have always been about getting ready for football. That's fine. He's a young man. He has the right to drink and do as he please with his free time. But if you're not in it fully and you're not committed to winning 365 days per year. This team won't go much further with mediocre play at the quarterback position. Because let's be honest here. He's just another Jay Cutler and Ryan Fitzpatrick statistically at this point in his career. He's been factually worse than those two. I think he'll get another chance in 2017 thanks to the incoming draft class being relatively weak at his position and with there more than likely not being a glorified upgrade in free agency to turn to. But that's it for him. 

 

Saying it's not Henne's job to coach up Bortles is correct but if Blake is a new qb coming into an organization where they saying that the reason why he is being resigned to be a mentor for Blake, wouldn't Blake follow thru with that? The habits that he could have picked up from Chad Henne could have been not taking the job serious enough to be great, thus leading to stuff like partying extra and doing things that are given the results we are seeing. Henne was supposed to be good coming out of college but he never lived up to it because of, possibly his habits? 

 

lol, I think I'm going to deep in but other than that I agree with you. Hopefully Blake can man up and change those habits on his own, (no matter where they came from) and turn it around next year.

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Saying it's not Henne's job to coach up Bortles is correct but if Blake is a new qb coming into an organization where they saying that the reason why he is being resigned to be a mentor for Blake, wouldn't Blake follow thru with that? The habits that he could have picked up from Chad Henne could have been not taking the job serious enough to be great, thus leading to stuff like partying extra and doing things that are given the results we are seeing. Henne was supposed to be good coming out of college but he never lived up to it because of, possibly his habits? 

 

lol, I think I'm going to deep in but other than that I agree with you. Hopefully Blake can man up and change those habits on his own, (no matter where they came from) and turn it around next year.

 

    One reason why I'm skeptical that Chad Henne isn't trying hard enough to help Blake Bortles is the Jaguars re-signed Henne to a higher valued contract that a large amount of # 2 QB's are receiving.   Giving Henne that type of contract couldn't be because of Henne's play on the field.   Dave Caldwell has been well trained to get into his current position.   I think Caldwell has seen enough positives from Henne as a professional that it influenced him greatly in bring Henne back.

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  I'm wondering though if Chad Henne was the Jags # 2 QB if Bill Belichick or Bruce Arians for example was the team's HC,  how much different the situation and perception would be with the team's QB situation?     Would Blake Bortles have reached the low point that he currently is?

 

I wonder the same thing

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Saying it's not Henne's job to coach up Bortles is correct but if Blake is a new qb coming into an organization where they saying that the reason why he is being resigned to be a mentor for Blake, wouldn't Blake follow thru with that? The habits that he could have picked up from Chad Henne could have been not taking the job serious enough to be great, thus leading to stuff like partying extra and doing things that are given the results we are seeing. Henne was supposed to be good coming out of college but he never lived up to it because of, possibly his habits? 

 

lol, I think I'm going to deep in but other than that I agree with you. Hopefully Blake can man up and change those habits on his own, (no matter where they came from) and turn it around next year.

 

Bortles has to have enough sense to realize two things. Number one, he wasn't drafted No. 3 overall because Henne is such an AWESOME master of the game at this level. And number two, he got his job to start as a rookie because Henne couldn't get it done. I understand where you're coming from. But it's not like some of these other quarterbacks from his class came into a situation where they had some all seeing and all knowing back-up to show them what's up. Bridgewater didn't have that. Carr didn't have that. But, to me, if Henne was good he wouldn't be playing second fiddle to Bortles. 

 

Bortles has the world on his shoulders now. You can point at Caldwell too. He's in part to blame for not having a better option or insurance policy in place sooner. Everyone questioned Shanahan for taking Cousins in RD2 the same year they took RGIII in RD1. That was one of the best decisions that was ever made for that franchise. But circle back to Caldwell. They were excited about drafting him but they didn't want him to start at all his rookie season. Due to his mechanical game being raw and rough and him being still pretty young. 

 

I want him to be successful. We all do. But he has to start showing it sooner rather than later now. He's supposed to be playing like David Carr or Marcus Mariota right now. Instead he's gone south BADLY on virtually all levels at his position. And there's no excuse for some of his terrible decision making. 

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I wonder the same thing

 

  One thing that seems near certain: Something must change in the Jaguars organization either at the HC position and/ or at QB ( in a major way ).   Expecting things to be much better with just a mid-season OC change that already took place and some other personnel moves on Offense seems unrealistic. 

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