Yes, we need a pass rusher, but I totally disagree about O-Linemen being easier to find. If that was true, we'd have a decent O-Line.


Just look at some of the greatest pass rushers in history. They weren't all first rounders. Guys like......


Jared Allen was drafted in the 4th round

Reggie White went to the USFL before he went to Philadelphia

Kevin Greene was drafted in round 5

Michael Strahan was drafted in round 2

Jason Taylor was drafted in round 3

John Randle was undrafted


You can find quality d-linemen in the mid rounds. I'm not saying we should ignore that need, I just think the O-Line is a bigger priority and once we install a true 4-3 or 3-4 scheme instead of a hybrid, it will make a difference as well.

Yes, we need a pass rusher, but I totally disagree about O-Linemen being easier to find. If that was true, we'd have a decent O-Line.

oline isnt a bigger priority over pass rusher. Getting to the quarterback is about the most important thing you can do. Tons of serviceable olineman are found every year, a couple really great pass rushers being found late isnt going to change the fact that more often than not those elite guys are going in the first. Pass and run blocking can also be compensated for with scheme and a Quarterback who isnt terrible but pass rush isnt just gonna get schemed into game changing levels.

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Care to share the names of the O-Linemen you like??

 

 

 

Three names off the top of my head are Pat Elflein of Ohio State, Dan Feeney of Indiana and Ethan Pocic of LSU. I also like Mason Cole of Michigan.

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You can assume theres gonna be no distinction between the guy youd take at 3 or at 25 but thats probably not the case. This is generally regarded as a bad class for oline and at 25 i dont think its crazy to assume two of those olineman are gone. Youre really assuming the best case scenario here.

 

 

And you're assuming we'd draft a game changer with a top 5 pick. How has that worked out for us the past few years?

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I don't follow the formula that you have to get a certain type of offer to trade down. If the best offer I get is a low 1st rounder, a 3rd rounder and a 5th rounder to move from #3 to #25, I take it. I don't care about following some trade value chart. I have 2 incentives and that is to trade down and accumulate picks and I did that via the trade. I don't want to pick at #3, because I'm targeting certain players that are late first rounders and I'm sticking to my draft plan.

If you're only getting a 3rd and a 5th rounder to go from a top 5 pick to the back of the 1st round then you just got fleeced. It's fine to target players later in the round but I'm not going to just give it to you for a couple of mid rounders. Not when other teams have gotten loads in return.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Fowler should've been drafted as a SAM in the first place. Hopefully our new coach will recognize this and make the necessary adjustments.

Assuming you're correct and this happens, all the more reason to select Garrett, Allen or Barnett with the 1st pick. The offensive line can still be fixed by drafting the best guard in the 2nd round (Feeney or Pocic), upgrading Parnell with a better free agent and drafting another guy in the mid-rounds. 

 

If Fowler can better utilize his skills at SAM, imagine a front 7 of Garrett (Barnett), Jackson, Miller and Yannick on the line with Smith, Jack and Fowler at linebacker. All they'll need is a good coach to be dominant.

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And you're assuming we'd draft a game changer with a top 5 pick. How has that worked out for us the past few years?

Ok if we cant hit in the top 5 why would you think we would hit at 25?

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Three names off the top of my head are Pat Elflein of Ohio State, Dan Feeney of Indiana and Ethan Pocic of LSU. I also like Mason Cole of Michigan.

What about free agency?

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oline isnt a bigger priority over pass rusher. Getting to the quarterback is about the most important thing you can do. Tons of serviceable olineman are found every year, a couple really great pass rushers being found late isnt going to change the fact that more often than not those elite guys are going in the first. Pass and run blocking can also be compensated for with scheme and a Quarterback who isnt terrible but pass rush isnt just gonna get schemed into game changing levels.

 

 

I couldn't disagree with you more. When Bortles played well last season, our O-Line was still terrible. We haven't had a decent running game in years with several guys trying to run the ball and that can be attributed to a bad O-Line. We are a one dimensional offense, because our O-Line is so bad that they can't open any holes for the run game. You can't expect to be a good NFL team when your opponent knows you have to throw on almost every down in order to gain yards. Fixing this has to be a priority. 

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Basically none of this stuff is guaranteed but its simple to me, id rather burn a pick on a pass rusher than get fleeced out of the top 5 just to draft a need that might not hit either


Thats literally just a terrible idea in all facets.

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I don't follow the formula that you have to get a certain type of offer to trade down. If the best offer I get is a low 1st rounder, a 3rd rounder and a 5th rounder to move from #3 to #25, I take it. I don't care about following some trade value chart. I have 2 incentives and that is to trade down and accumulate picks and I did that via the trade. I don't want to pick at #3, because I'm targeting certain players that are late first rounders and I'm sticking to my draft plan. 

I have a high stakes dynasty fantasy football league I would very much like for you to join...

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If you're only getting a 3rd and a 5th rounder to go from a top 5 pick to the back of the 1st round then you just got fleeced. It's fine to target players later in the round but I'm not going to just give it to you for a couple of mid rounders. Not when other teams have gotten loads in return.

 

 

So you's sit at #3 and get 1 player when you could have gotten 3 players who may be just as good, only because only because you didn't like the price tag. I'm sorry, but I think that's dumb.

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Basically none of this stuff is guaranteed but its simple to me, id rather burn a pick on a pass rusher than get fleeced out of the top 5 just to draft a need that might not hit either


Thats literally just a terrible idea in all facets.

 

 

You're drafting for need as well. You're just arguing a different need. This is not a draft where there is some elite player at the top. Being in the top 5 of this draft is not much different than sitting between #15 and #25.

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Assuming you're correct and this happens, all the more reason to select Garrett, Allen or Barnett with the 1st pick. The offensive line can still be fixed by drafting the best guard in the 2nd round (Feeney or Pocic), upgrading Parnell with a better free agent and drafting another guy in the mid-rounds. 

 

If Fowler can better utilize his skills at SAM, imagine a front 7 of Garrett (Barnett), Jackson, Miller and Yannick on the line with Smith, Jack and Fowler at linebacker. All they'll need is a good coach to be dominant.

 

 

We need more than one O-Lineman. I'd rather try and get more than one of the 3 guys I mentioned by moving down, than to take a D-Lineman and only one O-Lineman early. I'm sick of seeing a one dimensional offense. The defense overall, has made enough strides forward that I can wait to address it. The offense needs immediate attention.

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Ok if we cant hit in the top 5 why would you think we would hit at 25?

 

 

By trading down we accumulate more picks. More picks, more chances.

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You're drafting for need as well. You're just arguing a different need. This is not a draft where there is some elite player at the top. Being in the top 5 of this draft is not much different than sitting between #15 and #25.

Im arguing a need that also happens to be a more important position no matter what the need is, and judging by what general media is saying (which to be fair could be wrong) is probably the better player.


Everyone said last year that the top 5 and the late round were the same too and again it didnt turn out like that.

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By trading down we accumulate more picks. More picks, more chances.

Having the choice of 95% of the board > getting fleeced out of that for a 3rd and 5th lol

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Pass Rusher > Oline in importance


Pass Rusher = Oline in need


this pass rushing class > this oline class


top 5 > 20s


picking top 5 > having an extra 3rd and 5th


this is really easy

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Until this team can run the ball and rush the QB it won't see the playoffs

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So you's sit at #3 and get 1 player when you could have gotten 3 players who may be just as good, only because only because you didn't like the price tag. I'm sorry, but I think that's dumb.

Statistically the chances of the player panning out decreases with each passing pick. In order for me to assume that risk I need to be well compensated. I'm sorry if I don't jump at the first offer another team suggest. If he values the player he's targeting enough, and I would assume he does considering how far he's willing to trade up, he should be willing to pay the price for making such a move.


Look at what other teams have gotten in terms of compensation from moving 20+ spots down the board from a top pick. The thing is the team that moves down the board usually ends up with the short end of the stick compared to the player they could have gotten. So in order to hedge my bets and adjust to the larger risk that pick 25ish won't pan out, you better load me up with 2nd, 3rd, 4th round picks for this year and a possible 1st and 2nd next year.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

I'd look at adding a FA like Ronald Leary or better if someone is a cap casualty and possibly a right tackle as well.


Spend the 1st on a Garrett, Allen or Barnett. Then see who's available later on the O-Line. Might even consider trading back up into the 1st


Get a couple of big nasty maulers with a mean streak and stop running a finesse scheme

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