You guys are missing the point. Every team needs to collect talent and that sometimes takes a few years, however coaches can turn things around IMMEDIATELY and a coach that keeps losing with talent should not get 4 years.

The right coach in the right situation might be able to turn things around immediately-see Andy Reid in KC, where he already had a roster full of talented players.

But more often than not, losing teams lack the necessary talent to turn things around immediately, no matter who the coach is.

It takes time to accumulate the talent, and it sometimes takes time for the talent to adjust to the scheme, and for the coaches to learn the talent and adjust the scheme accordingly.

Bill Walsh has the term "genius" often attached to his name.  He is, without question, a HOF coach.  But it took him three years to transform the 49ers into champions.

Dick Vermeil was an outstanding coach, but it took him four years to turn the Rams into a Super Bowl team.

Nobody is suggesting at this stage Bradley was a good coach or that there wasn't an argument for firing him after 2015.

But the idea that teams can be microwaved into championship contention simply by having the right coach is folly.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

So the point of this thread is to start a pointless argument/debate?

Who ever accepted mediocrity? I'm sure I speak for most on this board when I say we didn't accept it, but what do we actually do about it?..

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80% of what I talk about is nonesense.. the other 25% is made up statistics...


 

Many of our top draft picks - Ramsey, Jack, Fournette, Fowler, Robinson, would not have been available to us had we not finished with lousy records.

Precisely.

We may have been a little better short term, but possibly not good enough now to be where we are.

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This season should show clearly the rebuild wasn’t the problem. Coaching was.

Yes.

I mean, to the extent the rebuild was stunted by having the wrong coach...yeah...I get it.

But as I said, if we performed a little better in 2013-2016, we would have a different team, and may not have been good enough to be where we are now.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I just want to say, I hope this season finally makes most of you realize the truth behind rebuilds: it does not take 4 years or more. That is and always has been BS that a lot of you bought in too and defended endlessly over this past decade.  Not just us proving it this year but the rams too.

With the right leaders (coughlin, marrone too) and free agency, you can turn things around in 1 or 2 years.

Once our window closes years down the line, I hope you guys remember that next time and dont accept 3 to 5 wins for 4 years at a time. Real football men at the top can turn things around much quicker

I still want to know, what does that mean, "...don't accept..."?   What does it mean to not accept it?   What would I do differently?  

I see this all the time.  "I am not going to accept..."   but what does it actually mean?   It's meaningless.   You can say "I accept it..." or you can say, "I don't accept it..."  but what the hell difference does it make?   I don't see where I have any choice but to accept things.

I guess it's the difference between being an adult and a child.

An adult sees something that he or she has no control over, quickly realizes nothing he or she does can change anything about it, and accept it. As adults.

A child sees something like that and says NO NO NO! I DON'T CARE! NO!! IT'S NOT HAPPENING! LA LA LA LA!

Am I close?

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I love when people show up to do their "look at me. Thread"
The "I know so much" thread. Or the "You guys should have been listening to me" thread.

And then the entire board comes to tell them how dumb they sound.

And then they double down.

Why don't you go away for a couple months. And come back when you hate the teams New draft pick.

---

s
;

;

So the point of this thread is to start a pointless argument/debate?

Who ever accepted mediocrity? I'm sure I speak for most on this board when I say we didn't accept it, but what do we actually do about it?..

Temper tantrums...  Lots of temper tantrums.

---

You guys are missing the point. Every team needs to collect talent and that sometimes takes a few years, however coaches can turn things around IMMEDIATELY and a coach that keeps losing with talent should not get 4 years.

Collecting talent for a few years is not "immediate."

The jags had a bad coach. 

Now they have a good one. 

There was no clear path to make this happen overnight.

it is to prove giving guys like Gus 4 years, and guys like Gene 4 years, is a WASTE

if coughlin and Marrone were here for last year's team (marrone the head coach obviously), I guarantee you we win significantly more than 3 wins

no one can seriously deny that

Time to build talent has nothing to do with what I am saying.  The Rams were perceived as having VERY LITTLE talent, and in 1 season, went from a laughing stock more than us to winning their division.. all the sudden a putrid league worst offensive line, just like ours, became a top one, just like ours, with the same young QBs as the year before

you guys can try to defend past actions all you want, but it wont matter, in the end, the right personnel guys and right coaches make ALL THE DIFFERENCE

if a coach is here with no talent or tons of talent, and winning 3 games in back to back to back years, its time to go.  Just remember that in the future should we encounter that again

No more "ya but he's only had 2 or 3 years he needs and deserves a 4th" ... no more of accepting that crap

This is what good front office and coaching produces.

---

The truth about rebuilds is that without a good coach overseeing nothing will happen..

The browns will realise this half way through next year.

---

Collecting talent for a few years is not "immediate."

The jags had a bad coach. 

Now they have a good one. 

There was no clear path to make this happen overnight.

it is to prove giving guys like Gus 4 years, and guys like Gene 4 years, is a WASTE

if coughlin and Marrone were here for last year's team (marrone the head coach obviously), I guarantee you we win significantly more than 3 wins

no one can seriously deny that

Time to build talent has nothing to do with what I am saying.  The Rams were perceived as having VERY LITTLE talent, and in 1 season, went from a laughing stock more than us to winning their division.. all the sudden a putrid league worst offensive line, just like ours, became a top one, just like ours, with the same young QBs as the year before

you guys can try to defend past actions all you want, but it wont matter, in the end, the right personnel guys and right coaches make ALL THE DIFFERENCE

if a coach is here with no talent or tons of talent, and winning 3 games in back to back to back years, its time to go.  Just remember that in the future should we encounter that again

No more "ya but he's only had 2 or 3 years he needs and deserves a 4th" ... no more of accepting that crap

This is what good front office and coaching produces.

Dude...you're not even talking about the rebuild.  You're completely changing the context of your original post.  And your Rams analogy is completely off.  Who said they had very little talent?  The only reason that they turned it around is because Goff matured and they had several good years of drafting.  You just keep digging deeper and deeper to try to prove an invalid point.  Neither rebuild happened overnight.  They were the results of....a rebuild.

---

Collecting talent for a few years is not "immediate."

The jags had a bad coach. 

Now they have a good one. 

There was no clear path to make this happen overnight.

it is to prove giving guys like Gus 4 years, and guys like Gene 4 years, is a WASTE

if coughlin and Marrone were here for last year's team (marrone the head coach obviously), I guarantee you we win significantly more than 3 wins

no one can seriously deny that

Time to build talent has nothing to do with what I am saying.  The Rams were perceived as having VERY LITTLE talent, and in 1 season, went from a laughing stock more than us to winning their division.. all the sudden a putrid league worst offensive line, just like ours, became a top one, just like ours, with the same young QBs as the year before

you guys can try to defend past actions all you want, but it wont matter, in the end, the right personnel guys and right coaches make ALL THE DIFFERENCE

if a coach is here with no talent or tons of talent, and winning 3 games in back to back to back years, its time to go.  Just remember that in the future should we encounter that again

No more "ya but he's only had 2 or 3 years he needs and deserves a 4th" ... no more of accepting that crap

This is what good front office and coaching produces.

You wouldv'e fired quite a few elite coaches that came to garbage rosters.

---

I just want to say, I hope this season finally makes most of you realize the truth behind rebuilds: it does not take 4 years or more. That is and always has been BS that a lot of you bought in too and defended endlessly over this past decade.  Not just us proving it this year but the rams too.

With the right leaders (coughlin, marrone too) and free agency, you can turn things around in 1 or 2 years.

Once our window closes years down the line, I hope you guys remember that next time and dont accept 3 to 5 wins for 4 years at a time. Real football men at the top can turn things around much quicker

I'm confused.  Using the Jags and Rams as examples actually supports the fact that rebuilds do take ~ 4 years.

That said, I do agree that front office personnel making good decisions is more important than the estimated duration of a rebuild.

---

Through this whole 'blow it up and start over' process the Jags basically wasted one season from an acquisition standpoint and stuck with a dud coach one year too long.

Given that those things happened under a green owner and GM - and given the current results -- I find it perfectly acceptable despite how tough the wait was.

Exactly.  Living through it sucked, but the end result is worth it.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Through this whole 'blow it up and start over' process the Jags basically wasted one season from an acquisition standpoint and stuck with a dud coach one year too long.

Given that those things happened under a green owner and GM - and given the current results -- I find it perfectly acceptable despite how tough the wait was.

Exactly.  Living through it sucked, but the end result is worth it.

Absolutely.

I can't imagine the pandemonium here if we beat the Pats.

Even if we don't, I am proud of this team and excited for the future.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Many of our top draft picks - Ramsey, Jack, Fournette, Fowler, Robinson, would not have been available to us had we not finished with lousy records.

Precisely.

We may have been a little better short term, but possibly not good enough now to be where we are.

---

This season should show clearly the rebuild wasn’t the problem. Coaching was.

Yes.

I mean, to the extent the rebuild was stunted by having the wrong coach...yeah...I get it.

But as I said, if we performed a little better in 2013-2016, we would have a different team, and may not have been good enough to be where we are now.

Good point, and one that shouldn't go unnoticed.  If not for the sub-par coaching, we wouldn't have some of the guys that are major contributors to the turnaround this team has seen this year.  

The bottom line here is that rebuilds, especially complete rebuilds like this team endured once Gene Smith was jettisoned, don't happen overnight like the OP seems to think.  You nailed it when you suggested it couldn't be microwaved.  It's the microwave generation that has zero patience and expects instant gratification, otherwise they rant and complain endlessly.  Sometimes patience truly is a virtue, despite how painful that can often be for fans.

The whipper snappers need to learn a thing or two about patience.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Exactly.  Living through it sucked, but the end result is worth it.

Absolutely.

I can't imagine the pandemonium here if we beat the Pats.

Even if we don't, I am proud of this team and excited for the future.

I was thinking about that earlier, and I came to the same conclusion.  At this point, we're enjoying the gravy of a great season that wasn't expected when we started this thing.  No matter what happens this Sunday, it's time to enjoy the ride.  We haven't had this much enthusiasm for the team in almost two decades around these parts.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Collecting talent for a few years is not "immediate."

The jags had a bad coach. 

Now they have a good one. 

There was no clear path to make this happen overnight.

it is to prove giving guys like Gus 4 years, and guys like Gene 4 years, is a WASTE

if coughlin and Marrone were here for last year's team (marrone the head coach obviously), I guarantee you we win significantly more than 3 wins

no one can seriously deny that

Time to build talent has nothing to do with what I am saying.  The Rams were perceived as having VERY LITTLE talent, and in 1 season, went from a laughing stock more than us to winning their division.. all the sudden a putrid league worst offensive line, just like ours, became a top one, just like ours, with the same young QBs as the year before

you guys can try to defend past actions all you want, but it wont matter, in the end, the right personnel guys and right coaches make ALL THE DIFFERENCE

if a coach is here with no talent or tons of talent, and winning 3 games in back to back to back years, its time to go.  Just remember that in the future should we encounter that again

No more "ya but he's only had 2 or 3 years he needs and deserves a 4th" ... no more of accepting that crap

This is what good front office and coaching produces.

You're not going to win this one.  If we had earned more than 3 wins last year, we would have more than likely lost out on the opportunity to get a guy like Fournette or Robinson, both of whom are going to be part of the long-term future and any success for this franchise.

They held on to Gus for a year longer than they should have, but that turned out to be a good thing for this team in the long run.  You're welcome to keep Depends stock on the rise as you keep looking for things to whine about, but it all boils down to the fact that you're just a nattering nabob of negativity, and you're physically incapable of simply enjoying the moment.  That's not our problem.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Caldwell deserves a lot of credit.

It was a slow boil, but despite some bad picks early on, he has done a rock solid job of building a roster that can see sustained success.  Many of the contributors to this success are guys still on their rookie contracts that were here before Marrone or Coughlin arrived on the scene.

I think you can credit the coach and VP of Football Operations with transforming the mindset of the team, and Tom certainly gets credit for the free agents we targeted this off season and the players we drafted, but Caldwell had to have a voice in that process as well, so kudos to him.

I just want to say, I hope this season finally makes most of you realize the truth behind rebuilds: it does not take 4 years or more. That is and always has been BS that a lot of you bought in too and defended endlessly over this past decade.  Not just us proving it this year but the rams too.

With the right leaders (coughlin, marrone too) and free agency, you can turn things around in 1 or 2 years.

Once our window closes years down the line, I hope you guys remember that next time and dont accept 3 to 5 wins for 4 years at a time. Real football men at the top can turn things around much quicker

I still want to know, what does that mean, "...don't accept..."?   What does it mean to not accept it?   What would I do differently?  

I see this all the time.  "I am not going to accept..."   but what does it actually mean?   It's meaningless.   You can say "I accept it..." or you can say, "I don't accept it..."  but what the hell difference does it make?   I don't see where I have any choice but to accept things.

If you were among the fans who was willing to allow the process to manifest, you're part of the problem.  We should have been demanding instant success as far as Krazy is concerned.  If we didn't get it, whine, demand cuts and firings, and do it again.  Continue to throw tantrums and have meltdowns like a spoiled child until eventually, you've wasted 4 years of tears complaining instead of just allowing the process to play itself out.  Rinse and repeat.

So the point of this thread is to start a pointless argument/debate?

Who ever accepted mediocrity? I'm sure I speak for most on this board when I say we didn't accept it, but what do we actually do about it?..

That's pretty much the point of almost every thread started by the OP.  You are just figuring that out?

So the point of this thread is to start a pointless argument/debate?

Who ever accepted mediocrity? I'm sure I speak for most on this board when I say we didn't accept it, but what do we actually do about it?..

Temper tantrums...  Lots of temper tantrums.

Bingo, that's what it's all about.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Absolutely.

I can't imagine the pandemonium here if we beat the Pats.

Even if we don't, I am proud of this team and excited for the future.

I was thinking about that earlier, and I came to the same conclusion.  At this point, we're enjoying the gravy of a great season that wasn't expected when we started this thing.  No matter what happens this Sunday, it's time to enjoy the ride.  We haven't had this much enthusiasm for the team in almost two decades around these parts.

I already have posts planned in the event we somehow beat the Pats and win it all.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I was thinking about that earlier, and I came to the same conclusion.  At this point, we're enjoying the gravy of a great season that wasn't expected when we started this thing.  No matter what happens this Sunday, it's time to enjoy the ride.  We haven't had this much enthusiasm for the team in almost two decades around these parts.

I already have posts planned in the event we somehow beat the Pats and win it all.

Good idea.  Not sure I could compose something on the fly when that happens.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I already have posts planned in the event we somehow beat the Pats and win it all.

Good idea.  Not sure I could compose something on the fly when that happens.

The stream of consciousness rants coming from me in the euphoria filled aftermath of such happenings would be frightening and epic at the same time.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!