Second... the wall.. illegal immigration peaked at over 12 million people about a decade ago and has started to drop in recent years. Still a problem. But is it our nation's most pressing problem? I don't think so. If Mexico makes up 52% of our illegal immigrants, how is spending billions on a wall going to solve the problem. Statistics show the numbers are already dropping. I don't think the American people would ever see a return on this investment and see it as a symbol more than a real solution. Plus, I don't think it will work. As discussed in previous threads, I also do not think it is very difficult to outsmart a wall.

---

Only a chump boos the home team!

People ask for substance and all you get is "its terrible"

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://www.google.com/amp/www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2016/07/29/moodys-where-trumps-economic-policies-might-spark-recession-clintons-could-boost-gdp-and-lower-unemployment/amp/?client=ms-android-verizon'>https://www.google.com/amp/www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2016/07/29/moodys-where-trumps-economic-policies-might-spark-recession-clintons-could-boost-gdp-and-lower-unemployment/amp/?client=ms-android-verizon</a>

---

Only a chump boos the home team!

Second... the wall.. illegal immigration peaked at over 12 million people about a decade ago and has started to drop in recent years. Still a problem. But is it our nation's most pressing problem? I don't think so. If Mexico makes up 52% of our illegal immigrants, how is spending billions on a wall going to solve the problem. Statistics show the numbers are already dropping. I don't think the American people would ever see a return on this investment and see it as a symbol more than a real solution. Plus, I don't think it will work. As discussed in previous threads, I also do not think it is very difficult to outsmart a wall.

 

these estimates on how many illegals are here is pure speculation. nobody knows how many for sure.  it could be twice that.

 

watch the movie "Cartel". people are walking across daily. the cartel has lookouts all along the border

---

Contrary to popular belief.. I have a job. I don't duck or disappear for long. You know this by now.

That wasn't what he was implying...

---

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

these estimates on how many illegals are here is pure speculation. nobody knows how many for sure. it could be twice that.


watch the movie "Cartel". people are walking across daily. the cartel has lookouts all along the border

So I should base my views on illegals off a movie and not this? <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/09/20/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/'>http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/09/20/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/</a>

---

Only a chump boos the home team!

I'd like to understand Trump's trade proposals better and how you see this realistically working. Call me naive, but I don't think countries are just gonna be bullied into taking the deal we want. I found some points in this article interesting (especially a progressive new labor policy). I hear what he is proposing, but am not sure it would play out like he is pitching it at all. <a class="bbc_url" href='http://time.com/4255900/donald-trump-trade-tariffs/'>http://time.com/4255900/donald-trump-trade-tariffs/</a>

---

Only a chump boos the home team!

I disagree. I think Hillary is status quo. And that makes her pro free trade and pro walstreet.


But I think trump truly hates America and the workers of the nation. It's smeared in every word he says, every contractor he stiffs, every tax he skips out on, every city he denigrates, and every dictator he admires. (Just to name a few things)


But I think we see things differently based on our ideological beliefs. What's comforting is that at least neither of us see either candidate as ideal. That's somehting, right?

It's good to see  you're sticking to those spoon-fed talking points.  I especially love the "every tax he skips out on" line.  Tell us, what tax did he skip out on exactly?  Tell us how it was illegal?

 

Regarding Trump's policies, jj laid them out pretty clearly.  I think ultimately, the critical policies that are at the core of his candidacy are immigration and tax reform.  Whether you agree with them or not, it's these two pillars of his platform that are most responsible for him becoming the nominee.  If Hillary is elected, she will absolutely represent the status quo. 

 

Unfortunately for her (and Trump for that matter), all of the cooking of the books, and all of the machinations this administration has done to create the illusion of a robust, growing economy will come crashing down like a house of cards, and that's going to happen regardless of who gets elected.  If the nation opts to go with the status quo, she will have ZERO answers for how to recover from any significant collapse.  She'll stick with protecting Wall Street, and making sure her own portfolio is healthy.

 

At the end of the day, either presidency has the potential to be disastrous.  But, the reality is that the vast majority of Americans, when polled, feel the country is headed in the wrong direction.  Hillary does nothing to change that trajectory since she's basically running for a 3rd Obama term.  Whether it's the right option or not, change is in the wind, and Hillary doesn't represent that in any way.

 

In my opinion, Trump comes in as a complete outsider, not linked to the leadership class that runs both parties, more interested in retaining their control over things than actually fixing anything.  He may not have all the right solutions, but what he DOES do is completely blow up the establishment that has been entrenched for decades in Washington.  Hillary would simply appease them since she's part of that machine.  In order for this country to advance and get out of the current quagmire, we need to clear out the obstacles that have created the mess, and that is the entire ruling class in Washington DC that infects both parties.  They pretend to be adversarial, but in reality, they're complicit in undermining the country while putting on some twisted political Kabuki theater.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

So I should base my views on illegals off a movie and not this? <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/09/20/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/'>http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/09/20/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/</a>

 

it's an estimate... there is no way to truly know how many are here especially given the way the border is right now.  the movie is a documentary. fine, dont watch it.  just a suggestion. 

---

It's good to see  you're sticking to those spoon-fed talking points.  I especially love the "every tax he skips out on" line.  Tell us, what tax did he skip out on exactly?  Tell us how it was illegal?

 

Regarding Trump's policies, jj laid them out pretty clearly.  I think ultimately, the critical policies that are at the core of his candidacy are immigration and tax reform.  Whether you agree with them or not, it's these two pillars of his platform that are most responsible for him becoming the nominee.  If Hillary is elected, she will absolutely represent the status quo.

 

Unfortunately for her (and Trump for that matter), all of the cooking of the books, and all of the machinations this administration has done to create the illusion of a robust, growing economy will come crashing down like a house of cards, and that's going to happen regardless of who gets elected.  If the nation opts to go with the status quo, she will have ZERO answers for how to recover from any significant collapse.  She'll stick with protecting Wall Street, and making sure her own portfolio is healthy.

 

At the end of the day, either presidency has the potential to be disastrous.  But, the reality is that the vast majority of Americans, when polled, feel the country is headed in the wrong direction.  Hillary does nothing to change that trajectory since she's basically running for a 3rd Obama term.  Whether it's the right option or not, change is in the wind, and Hillary doesn't represent that in any way.

 

In my opinion, Trump comes in as a complete outsider, not linked to the leadership class that runs both parties, more interested in retaining their control over things than actually fixing anything.  He may not have all the right solutions, but what he DOES do is completely blow up the establishment that has been entrenched for decades in Washington.  Hillary would simply appease them since she's part of that machine.  In order for this country to advance and get out of the current quagmire, we need to clear out the obstacles that have created the mess, and that is the entire ruling class in Washington DC that infects both parties.  They pretend to be adversarial, but in reality, they're complicit in undermining the country while putting on some twisted political Kabuki theater.

 

I pretty much agree with everything that you said here, but the bold parts are the major thing.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

All I know is, based on his words, only Trump can fix our problems.

 

To use jj's line, if he says it...

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Tax reform , so everyone pays their fair share.


Free health and fitness memberships. So there are no more fat pigs.


Closing all Taco Bell's. So illegals can't phone home.


Setting an example by bringing his clothing accessory business to the Bronx


Reforming and regulating the totally unfair media.


Restricting WalMart from selling the majority of products imported from Ghina.

---

Blakes Life Matters

Tax reform , so everyone pays their fair share.


Free health and fitness memberships. So there are no more fat pigs.

Closing all Taco Bell's. So illegals can't phone home.


Setting an example by bringing his clothing accessory business to the Bronx


Reforming and regulating the totally unfair media.


Restricting WalMart from selling the majority of products imported from Ghina.

 

That's racist.

 

Just saying.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

That's racist.

 

Just saying.

Well....I've heard they're rapists, drug dealers and gang members. Also...it's one of Trumps policies. So, what's the big deal?

---

Blakes Life Matters

That wasn't what he was implying...

Was the implication correct? Lol...

---

That's racist.


Just saying.

No big deal.


Most Mexicans are rapists and murderers. Some, I assume, are good people.

---

Was the implication correct? Lol...

Pretty much.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

No big deal.


Most Mexicans are rapists and murderers. Some, I assume, are good people.

You heard wrong, it was "New Mexicans."

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I'd like to understand Trump's trade proposals better and how you see this realistically working. Call me naive, but I don't think countries are just gonna be bullied into taking the deal we want. I found some points in this article interesting (especially a progressive new labor policy). I hear what he is proposing, but am not sure it would play out like he is pitching it at all. <a class="bbc_url" href='http://time.com/4255900/donald-trump-trade-tariffs/'>http://time.com/4255900/donald-trump-trade-tariffs/</a>

 

Bullied is a relative term.  We are essentially the largest consumer market in the history of the world.  There is no reason that countries seeking access to our domestic markets can't treat our exports the same way we treat their imports. 

 

Every year we are loosing more than 3/4 of a trillion dollars in a trade deficit.  That's unsustainable.  We can't continue to trade into the hole of countries that have protectionist policies or in the case of China, just steal our intellectual property. 

 

They have to be held accountable. 

---

Bullied is a relative term. We are essentially the largest consumer market in the history of the world. There is no reason that countries seeking access to our domestic markets can't treat our exports the same way we treat their imports.


Every year we are loosing more than 3/4 of a trillion dollars in a trade deficit. That's unsustainable. We can't continue to trade into the hole of countries that have protectionist policies or in the case of China, just steal our intellectual property.


They have to be held accountable.

It's like they're afraid to be strong or to lead.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It's like they're afraid to be strong or to lead.

 

Being strong is offensive. Calling Putin a strong leader makes liberals cry.

---