You completely missed the point, as usual. I guess I have to spoon feed it to you. We already have 5-7 good DE/DT's competing for for 3 starting positions. The slots are full. Drafting Barmore would be a waste, because he'd most likely be sitting on the bench. You can only have so many players at one position on a roster. We spent most of our resources upgrading this exact position and now it's a position of great strength as a rotation.

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And we now have that with Tyson Alualu, Dawuane Smoot, Ray Robertson-Harris, Jihad Ward, Malcolm Brown, DaVon Hamilton and Doug Costin.

So, in other words, you have to 'spoon feed me' because you made a really stupid analogy.  Got it.

So we have 'good' DTs.  How many are on the level of Mahomes at his position?  Maybe I could spoon feed you the answer.

ZERO.

What difference does it make????? I used Mahomes as the example of an established QB. The QB's in this scenario are interchangeable. I could've used Matthew Stafford, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Ben Roethlisberger, Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, Justin Herbert, Daks Prescott, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady or Russell Wilson. Any established QB would've worked in this scenario. Mahomes was just the first one that popped into my mind. The point being that when you have a position with established starters already established for the foreseeable future, you don't spend first round picks on that position, because you're just drafting for depth. When you are 1-15, you spend high picks to add potential good starters, not backups.

For the record, this is an example of spoon feeding you concepts you should already know. The names used in scenarios are generic, it's the big picture that you are completely missing.

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So, in other words, you have to 'spoon feed me' because you made a really stupid analogy.  Got it.

So we have 'good' DTs.  How many are on the level of Mahomes at his position?  Maybe I could spoon feed you the answer.

ZERO.

What difference does it make????? I used Mahomes as the example of an established QB. The QB's in this scenario are interchangeable. I could've used Matthew Stafford, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Ben Roethlisberger, Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, Justin Herbert, Daks Prescott, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady or Russell Wilson. Any established QB would've worked in this scenario. Mahomes was just the first one that popped into my mind. The point being that when you have a position with established starters already established for the foreseeable future, you don't spend first round picks on that position, because you're just drafting for depth. When you are 1-15, you spend high picks to add potential good starters, not backups.

For the record, this is an example of spoon feeding you concepts you should already know. The names used in scenarios are generic, it's the big picture that you are completely missing.

Spoon feeding me.  LOL.  You choose possibly the best current QB in the game and then says it's the same as the rest.  And guess what, quarterback is waaaaaay different no matter who it is.  If you don't know that, you aren't as smart as you pretend to be.

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What difference does it make????? I used Mahomes as the example of an established QB. The QB's in this scenario are interchangeable. I could've used Matthew Stafford, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Ben Roethlisberger, Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, Justin Herbert, Daks Prescott, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady or Russell Wilson. Any established QB would've worked in this scenario. Mahomes was just the first one that popped into my mind. The point being that when you have a position with established starters already established for the foreseeable future, you don't spend first round picks on that position, because you're just drafting for depth. When you are 1-15, you spend high picks to add potential good starters, not backups.

For the record, this is an example of spoon feeding you concepts you should already know. The names used in scenarios are generic, it's the big picture that you are completely missing.

Spoon feeding me.  LOL.  You choose possibly the best current QB in the game and then says it's the same as the rest.  And guess what, quarterback is waaaaaay different no matter who it is.  If you don't know that, you aren't as smart as you pretend to be.

Again, you are focusing on the wrong thing. If you need it simplified, which apparently you do, we'll use a different position. I'll try to go slowly for you. This time we'll use OT. Take the Saints for example. They have Terron Armstead and Ryan Ramczyk. Just pretend like their current contracts extended into 2024. In that case, you wouldn't draft an OT in round 1, because you have established starters there for the foreseeable future. The same goes for our DE/DT position. Get it now? I can't water this down any further for you

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So, in other words, you have to 'spoon feed me' because you made a really stupid analogy.  Got it.

So we have 'good' DTs.  How many are on the level of Mahomes at his position?  Maybe I could spoon feed you the answer.

ZERO.

What difference does it make????? I used Mahomes as the example of an established QB. The QB's in this scenario are interchangeable. I could've used Matthew Stafford, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Ben Roethlisberger, Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, Justin Herbert, Daks Prescott, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady or Russell Wilson. Any established QB would've worked in this scenario. Mahomes was just the first one that popped into my mind. The point being that when you have a position with established starters already established for the foreseeable future, you don't spend first round picks on that position, because you're just drafting for depth. When you are 1-15, you spend high picks to add potential good starters, not backups.

For the record, this is an example of spoon feeding you concepts you should already know. The names used in scenarios are generic, it's the big picture that you are completely missing.

So you are asserting that someone like Barmore wouldn't make Doug Costin, Alualu expendable? Cripes, I'd venture that he might push every last one of the guys in that group down a spot on the depth chart.

In two years, a lot of those bandaids we just signed aren't going to be here. Are you alleging that Barmore is on the level of Taven Bryan - In three years, doomed to the roster bubble? Or is this just that you are so fixated on darfting an OL that any other possibility is the equivalent to chugging a gallon of soured milk?

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Spoon feeding me.  LOL.  You choose possibly the best current QB in the game and then says it's the same as the rest.  And guess what, quarterback is waaaaaay different no matter who it is.  If you don't know that, you aren't as smart as you pretend to be.

Again, you are focusing on the wrong thing. If you need it simplified, which apparently you do, we'll use a different position. I'll try to go slowly for you. This time we'll use OT. Take the Saints for example. They have Terron Armstead and Ryan Ramczyk. Just pretend like their current contracts extended into 2024. In that case, you wouldn't draft an OT in round 1, because you have established starters there for the foreseeable future. The same goes for our DE/DT position. Get it now? I can't water this down any further for you

I'll try to go slowly for you this time.  You used a horrible analogy and refuse to admit it.

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What difference does it make????? I used Mahomes as the example of an established QB. The QB's in this scenario are interchangeable. I could've used Matthew Stafford, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Ben Roethlisberger, Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, Justin Herbert, Daks Prescott, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady or Russell Wilson. Any established QB would've worked in this scenario. Mahomes was just the first one that popped into my mind. The point being that when you have a position with established starters already established for the foreseeable future, you don't spend first round picks on that position, because you're just drafting for depth. When you are 1-15, you spend high picks to add potential good starters, not backups.

For the record, this is an example of spoon feeding you concepts you should already know. The names used in scenarios are generic, it's the big picture that you are completely missing.

So you are asserting that someone like Barmore wouldn't make Doug Costin, Alualu expendable? Cripes, I'd venture that he might push every last one of the guys in that group down a spot on the depth chart.

In two years, a lot of those bandaids we just signed aren't going to be here. Are you alleging that Barmore is on the level of Taven Bryan - In three years, doomed to the roster bubble? Or is this just that you are so fixated on darfting an OL that any other possibility is the equivalent to chugging a gallon of soured milk?

(emphasis added)

Absolutely right.

At two of the four DL we signed/traded for were NOT starters when we signed them.  Alualu was never overly good in the first place, and now he's 34.  Maybe some of these guys can surprise, but I can only look to Malcolm Brown and see a proven, legitimate starter.  Although Barmore has had his inconsistencies in college, I see him as more of a prospect than a Taven Bryan, who was taken at a similar point in the draft, or for that matter, Tyson Alualu, who was taken freaking 10th overall.

I'm still unsure if taking Barmore would be the right thing given our new franchise QB and the state of our tackles.  But I disagree with the assertion Barmore would be a "horrible" pick, especially since we have two more picks in close proximity to that 25th overall.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

So you are asserting that someone like Barmore wouldn't make Doug Costin, Alualu expendable? Cripes, I'd venture that he might push every last one of the guys in that group down a spot on the depth chart.

In two years, a lot of those bandaids we just signed aren't going to be here. Are you alleging that Barmore is on the level of Taven Bryan - In three years, doomed to the roster bubble? Or is this just that you are so fixated on darfting an OL that any other possibility is the equivalent to chugging a gallon of soured milk?

(emphasis added)

Absolutely right.

At two of the four DL we signed/traded for were NOT starters when we signed them.  Alualu was never overly good in the first place, and now he's 34.  Maybe some of these guys can surprise, but I can only look to Malcolm Brown and see a proven, legitimate starter.  Although Barmore has had his inconsistencies in college, I see him as more of a prospect than a Taven Bryan, who was taken at a similar point in the draft, or for that matter, Tyson Alualu, who was taken freaking 10th overall.

I'm still unsure if taking Barmore would be the right thing given our new franchise QB and the state of our tackles.  But I disagree with the assertion Barmore would be a "horrible" pick, especially since we have two more picks in close proximity to that 25th overall.

I’ve said since the Jags secured the top pick, that I am drafting heavy offense in this draft. That doesn’t mean I’m “reaching” for an offensive player if the defensive player is of greater value but if I’m looking at Barmore or Jenkins, I’m going Jenkins. 

We have to give Trevor protection and weapons to be the best QB he can be this year and going forward.

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What difference does it make????? I used Mahomes as the example of an established QB. The QB's in this scenario are interchangeable. I could've used Matthew Stafford, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Ben Roethlisberger, Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, Justin Herbert, Daks Prescott, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady or Russell Wilson. Any established QB would've worked in this scenario. Mahomes was just the first one that popped into my mind. The point being that when you have a position with established starters already established for the foreseeable future, you don't spend first round picks on that position, because you're just drafting for depth. When you are 1-15, you spend high picks to add potential good starters, not backups.

For the record, this is an example of spoon feeding you concepts you should already know. The names used in scenarios are generic, it's the big picture that you are completely missing.

So you are asserting that someone like Barmore wouldn't make Doug Costin, Alualu expendable? Cripes, I'd venture that he might push every last one of the guys in that group down a spot on the depth chart.

In two years, a lot of those bandaids we just signed aren't going to be here. Are you alleging that Barmore is on the level of Taven Bryan - In three years, doomed to the roster bubble? Or is this just that you are so fixated on darfting an OL that any other possibility is the equivalent to chugging a gallon of soured milk?

I'm telling you he wouldn't start in a 3-4 scheme over Alualu, Malcolm Brown, DaVon Hamilton or Roy Robertson-Harris and you don't spend first round picks on backups when you are a 1-15 team.

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(emphasis added)

Absolutely right.

At two of the four DL we signed/traded for were NOT starters when we signed them.  Alualu was never overly good in the first place, and now he's 34.  Maybe some of these guys can surprise, but I can only look to Malcolm Brown and see a proven, legitimate starter.  Although Barmore has had his inconsistencies in college, I see him as more of a prospect than a Taven Bryan, who was taken at a similar point in the draft, or for that matter, Tyson Alualu, who was taken freaking 10th overall.

I'm still unsure if taking Barmore would be the right thing given our new franchise QB and the state of our tackles.  But I disagree with the assertion Barmore would be a "horrible" pick, especially since we have two more picks in close proximity to that 25th overall.

I’ve said since the Jags secured the top pick, that I am drafting heavy offense in this draft. That doesn’t mean I’m “reaching” for an offensive player if the defensive player is of greater value but if I’m looking at Barmore or Jenkins, I’m going Jenkins. 

We have to give Trevor protection and weapons to be the best QB he can be this year and going forward.

Completely understood.

I don't assert that not taking Barmore at 25 automatically equates to reaching.  What I DO assert is that taking Barmore at 25 is not necessarily a wasted pick, and that there could be real benefit to doing so.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I’ve said since the Jags secured the top pick, that I am drafting heavy offense in this draft. That doesn’t mean I’m “reaching” for an offensive player if the defensive player is of greater value but if I’m looking at Barmore or Jenkins, I’m going Jenkins. 

We have to give Trevor protection and weapons to be the best QB he can be this year and going forward.

Completely understood.

I don't assert that not taking Barmore at 25 automatically equates to reaching.  What I DO assert is that taking Barmore at 25 is not necessarily a wasted pick, and that there could be real benefit to doing so.

Oh I totally understand and wouldn’t hate Barmore at 25. He will be a good player.

But I think there are some real impact Olinemen that will be there and help protect Trevor because Taylor sucks.

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Completely understood.

I don't assert that not taking Barmore at 25 automatically equates to reaching.  What I DO assert is that taking Barmore at 25 is not necessarily a wasted pick, and that there could be real benefit to doing so.

Oh I totally understand and wouldn’t hate Barmore at 25. He will be a good player.

But I think there are some real impact Olinemen that will be there and help protect Trevor because Taylor sucks.

I've been arguing for offensive linemen all offseason.

But considering we didn't sign any in free agency, and that we pick so low in the draft (after TLaw), I'm fearful the best OL will be taken by our pick in the first round.  There are a slew of teams picking right in front of us in the draft order that could all use tackles, to say nothing of a team like the Chiefs who could trade up ahead of us, since they still need a T.

In a worst case scenario where there is a run at the position that exhausts all of the tackles carrying a first round grade before our pick, taking Barmore may be preferable to reaching for a tackle that does not carry a first round grade, especially considering our second round pick comes so close to our 25.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

So you are asserting that someone like Barmore wouldn't make Doug Costin, Alualu expendable? Cripes, I'd venture that he might push every last one of the guys in that group down a spot on the depth chart.

In two years, a lot of those bandaids we just signed aren't going to be here. Are you alleging that Barmore is on the level of Taven Bryan - In three years, doomed to the roster bubble? Or is this just that you are so fixated on darfting an OL that any other possibility is the equivalent to chugging a gallon of soured milk?

I'm telling you he wouldn't start in a 3-4 scheme over Alualu, Malcolm Brown, DaVon Hamilton or Roy Robertson-Harris and you don't spend first round picks on backups when you are a 1-15 team.

Urban said in his last interview, regardless of what the stats say he wants the dline to be top 4 in the league.  In college he said he wants a top 5, but in the NFL he wants a top 4.  Do you think we have a top 4 dline?  The addition of Barmore would get us 1 step closer to that goal and what Urban thinks is very important and I agree.

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I'm telling you he wouldn't start in a 3-4 scheme over Alualu, Malcolm Brown, DaVon Hamilton or Roy Robertson-Harris and you don't spend first round picks on backups when you are a 1-15 team.

Urban said in his last interview, regardless of what the stats say he wants the dline to be top 4 in the league.  In college he said he wants a top 5, but in the NFL he wants a top 4.  Do you think we have a top 4 dline?  The addition of Barmore would get us 1 step closer to that goal and what Urban thinks is very important and I agree.

I think with what we have now, we should be a top 5 in run defense. Are OLB's considered part of the D-Line in a 3-4 scheme? They essentially provide the pass rush. If they are, then there is still work to be done, but I really like what we have in the front 3 now.

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Barmore would offer what our dline doesn't currently have, plus I would buy the argument that he could be BAP by enough that you take him regardless of need.

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If Barmore is expected to be a difference maker at DT, then why is he being projected to be drafted so late? Guys that are expected to be difference makers at that position come at such a high premium that they are typically drafted in the top half of the first round, not the bottom half. And he's supposedly the best DT in a draft that lacks playmakers at that position... Wouldn't that more likely cause him to be overvalued than undervalued?

I've never analyzed his play, so I can't really speak to his on field talent, but the fact that Barmore isn't more coveted gives me pause.

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If Barmore is expected to be a difference maker at DT, then why is he being projected to be drafted so late?  Guys that are expected to be difference makers at that position come at such a high premium that they are typically drafted in the top half of the first round, not the bottom half.  And he's supposedly the best DT in a draft that lacks playmakers at that position...  Wouldn't that more likely cause him to be overvalued than undervalued?  

I've never analyzed his play, so I can't really speak to his on field talent, but the fact that Barmore isn't more coveted gives me pause.

Because he started slow this past season .  He played his best football in the playoffs and late in the season.  Chris Jones is a guy that not to long ago went at the top of the 2nd and is one of the best DTs in the league

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I'm telling you he wouldn't start in a 3-4 scheme over Alualu, Malcolm Brown, DaVon Hamilton or Roy Robertson-Harris and you don't spend first round picks on backups when you are a 1-15 team.

Urban said in his last interview, regardless of what the stats say he wants the dline to be top 4 in the league.  In college he said he wants a top 5, but in the NFL he wants a top 4.  Do you think we have a top 4 dline?  The addition of Barmore would get us 1 step closer to that goal and what Urban thinks is very important and I agree.

He didn't say top 4.  He said top fourth.   That would be top 8.

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If Barmore is expected to be a difference maker at DT, then why is he being projected to be drafted so late?  Guys that are expected to be difference makers at that position come at such a high premium that they are typically drafted in the top half of the first round, not the bottom half.  And he's supposedly the best DT in a draft that lacks playmakers at that position...  Wouldn't that more likely cause him to be overvalued than undervalued?  

I've never analyzed his play, so I can't really speak to his on field talent, but the fact that Barmore isn't more coveted gives me pause.

Because he started slow this past season .  He played his best football in the playoffs and late in the season.  Chris Jones is a guy that not to long ago went at the top of the 2nd and is one of the best DTs in the league

If everyone knew how good Chris Jones would be, he probably doesn't make it out of the top 10 in his draft.  And if there's no Buckner to go ahead of him in his draft, he may have been a top 5 guy.
If GMs and analysts believe Barmore is the next Chris Jones, he goes a lot earlier than 25.  I wouldn't pan the pick if we made it, but it seems risky.

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Because he started slow this past season .  He played his best football in the playoffs and late in the season.  Chris Jones is a guy that not to long ago went at the top of the 2nd and is one of the best DTs in the league

If everyone knew how good Chris Jones would be, he probably doesn't make it out of the top 10 in his draft.  And if there's no Buckner to go ahead of him in his draft, he may have been a top 5 guy.
If GMs and analysts believe Barmore is the next Chris Jones, he goes a lot earlier than 25.  I wouldn't pan the pick if we made it, but it seems risky.

Nobody ever knows how good a player will be, Aaron Donald went 13th.  How do we know teams don't have him higher on their board?  We don't, hell he might not even be there at 25 when we pick.  Players fall ever year for different reason, you just have to trust your board if you feel is is the best player available or whoever you have up there

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Because he started slow this past season .  He played his best football in the playoffs and late in the season.  Chris Jones is a guy that not to long ago went at the top of the 2nd and is one of the best DTs in the league

If everyone knew how good Chris Jones would be, he probably doesn't make it out of the top 10 in his draft.  And if there's no Buckner to go ahead of him in his draft, he may have been a top 5 guy.
If GMs and analysts believe Barmore is the next Chris Jones, he goes a lot earlier than 25.  I wouldn't pan the pick if we made it, but it seems risky.

Barmore is usually in the 14-20 range in mocks. I would consider it a bit of a surprise if IDL1 made it to 25,

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