I never said or implied anything about him being successful. Facts are the facts. You can choose to ignore them if you like. Lots do.

Lol. You provided 5 facts that have nothing to do with the head coach... man, I am beginning to see why you get roasted so hard in the political forum...


With all due respect, you are absolutely rationalizing in order to keep your predisposed position.


What's worse is that you omit facts that hurt your position. That's just sloppy debating, young man. You need to work on that.

---

You've chosen your own set of facts and ignored all others as you always do.

 

In your premise #3, you are implying that Bradley is a "successful" defensive minded coach.  Most have assumed that he is responsible for the success of the Seattle Defense.  However, the facts are they they further improved after he left.  It's also just as plausible (and more likely) that Pete Carroll and John Schneider are responsible for their success.

 

There are no facts yet (going into his 4th year as our HC) to support that success has followed Bradley. 

 

All of your speculations are ignorant and devoid of any objectivity whatsoever. 

 

Most here are rather objective and at a minimum understand that it's time for Bradley to put up or shut up.  Many believe that he has shown enough that he will not be successful as an NFL HC and is past his tenure.  And then a very few (you) believe that he should rival Belichik for coach of the year.

 

If you're going to debate/discuss here, at least bring some legitimate rationale, logic, facts and objectivity.

ehh, i agree with part of your assessment about his time in Seattle but not completely. the legion of boom was born while bradley was there and it is hard for me argue they have actually gotten better since he left. i think they are elite, but i think alot of it comes from the players not the coaching personnel. when cam sat out the beginning of last year, that D looked a whole lot weaker than they had in the past. If coaching was  truly the factor that made them what they are, then cam's absence should not have effected them that much. I'm not saying bradley is the only reason they are what they are, but i am saying carroll and Schneider are not more of an influence than him. There may be weaker personnel groups who out performed our D last year, but i can't name them. our D was pretty atrocious. I mean we started Josh Evans, thats enough for me. 

 

and i dont believe he deserves coach of the year, i just don't think what has done has warranted all the scrutiny he receives. It would have been one thing if Ron Rivera got fired and he took over Carolina, a team that doesnt have to completely purge thier roster, but still managed to go 2-14. It's a little different when you take over a team that 3 years into being there, you only have 3/53 existing player from before you got there. he may as well have taken over a expansion team. 

---

Gus does bug me. I can't understand for the life of me why a guy like Cyprien is so garbage when he should be a very good player and it comes back to coaching for me. I think it affects the entire team. The sloppiness they play with a lot of the time. That has nothing to do with talent, it's coaching. We had 28 turnovers last season. Sloppy football. I can't see a Bruce Arians or Bill Belichick team having 28 turnovers no matter who the players are.

to be fair the safety classes for years haven't panned out at the top Mark Barron cyp Elam ect.the only ones I can think of r vacarro an earl Thomas that went high in the draft an have done pretty well though I think vacarro was benched last year in NO

---

Lol. You provided 5 facts that have nothing to do with the head coach... man, I am beginning to see why you get roasted so hard in the political forum...


With all due respect, you are absolutely rationalizing in order to keep your predisposed position.


What's worse is that you omit facts that hurt your position. That's just sloppy debating, young man. You need to work on that.

Ok, if that's how you feel, provide the counter argument.

---

Ok, if that's how you feel, provide the counter argument.

 

Counter argument?  Are you kidding me???

 

The following meme is how the critiques of Gus Bradley feel about your "counter argument" reply:

 



 

 

The critiques asked me to add a Post Script:

 

---

I would say we have superior skill position talent to every team in the AFC South.

 

I would not say that applies to the lines.

 

But whatever talent deficiencies that exist on this roster are not the issue.  The gap has been closed overall. 

 

At this point, Bradley is the question.

 

I can agree with the premise here--- At least on the O-line.  I think we've done enough and have gotten healthy enough on the D-Line that the D-Line is no longer a liability like it has been.

 

The O-Line is questionable.  That is the one unit that is concerning.  If Linder remains healthy, and the off season pick ups contribute, we may have a respectable O-Line.  But I'll concede that the O-Line is still not dominate compared to the rest of the division...  At best we push against the rest of the AFCS offensive lines.

 

But even with that liability, I think we have enough match-ups that favor the Jaguars that we can over-come the weakness in the O-Line.  Again, to me the biggest glaring issue in terms of confidence against the rest of the division is the coaching matchup...

 

Mularkey V Bradley is a push...

But Braley V. Pagano and Brdley V. O'Brian is a clear advantage to the other side...

 

EDIT:  Of course this feeling I have regarding Bradley is not static.  I'm willing to let Bradley prove me wrong.  But I'm not in the camp where I am able to ignore the reality that has been Bradley's ineptitude up till this point.  The dude has been out of his element for the entire time he's been a HC.  To say otherwise is just flat out ignoring EVERY GAME of EVERY SEASON so far with the exception of the clot home game in 2015...

---

Is it the only record that matters?

 

Bill O'Brien is an offensive head coach, yet the Texans were 21st in PPG. The Chargers have an offensive HC AND a veteran pro-bowl caliber QB, and they finished 26th in PPG.

 

We're heading into the season with potentially 6 new starters on defense (Fowler, Malik, Jack, Jalen, Gipson, Prince).

 

That should tell you what the GM thought of this personnel.

 

I was referring to Gus Bradley's record, and agreeing that the first two years didn't matter. Last year the Jags had a much better offense, the defense added four new starters (three after Brown was benched) while losing one (Marks), and the opposing teams were mostly in shambles. 5-11 is pathetic in that context. 31st in scoring defense is pathetic. Last year Gus failed.


 

Do you think Bill O'Brien or Mike McCoy are offensive geniuses? O'Brien has never had a good offense. The Chargers under McCoy have done better, but last year they had only one offensive lineman start all 16 games; that can play havoc with an offense.

 

And at this point last season Caldwell had added five potential new starters on defense, yet the defense went from 26th to 31st. Sure the team missed Marks, but if the head coach can't adjust for the loss of one player (other than QB) while getting upgrades at three other positions then the problem is deeper than the personnel.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

What are you talking about people rationalizing?


Let's start from the beginning:


Here are the facts (premises):


1. David Caldwell is a superior judge of talent.

2. The Defense was the problem last year.

3. Gus Bradley is a defensive-minded coach.

4. David Caldwell signed Gus Bradley to an extension.

5. David Caldwell - in one offseason - has completely over hauled the defensive roster.


Ok, let's back it up again. Why was the defense so bad last year?


You have three choices: 1) talent is inadequate 2) coaching is adequate or 3) both are inadequate


Given what David Caldwell has chosen to do this offseason, which of those three options do you feel it is most likely he agrees with?


The facts point to option 1. Plain and simple.


Now, if you think you know better, well, that's on you.

 

1, 2, and 3 are given.


 

4. Whatever Dave Caldwell thinks about Bradley, Khan didn't want the Jags to be another Cleveland Browns. So Gus had to stay. The extension (just one year) was to facilitate free agency and team unity. In free agency money rules, but other factors can have an effect. Players generally don't want to come to a team if they think the coach will be changed next year.


 

5. Caldwell spent TWO years overhauling the defense. Last year the Jags added Odrick, House, Skuta, and Brown, and drafted Fowler. And even if the defense was good last year the Jags would have gone after key free agents. It's what you do with the highest cap total. The offense was not a problem last year and the Jags still added a RB and OT on that side of the team.


 

And you forgot:


 

6. Defensive Coordinator Bob Babich was fired.


 

So defensive coaching was considered a factor by the Jags management. Offhand I'd say case 2, both personnel and coaching were the problem. The question is did Bradley get the maximum out of the players he had? Not from my perspective. Other teams with worse personnel had better results on defense. There's no excuse in giving up a near (one less than the) team record number of points against the weakest offensive opposition in Jaguars history. Go back and look at the Jags roster from 2011 when they were 11th in points given up. Were they really that much better?

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

1, 2, and 3 are given.


 

4. Whatever Dave Caldwell thinks about Bradley, Khan didn't want the Jags to be another Cleveland Browns. So Gus had to stay. The extension (just one year) was to facilitate free agency and team unity. In free agency money rules, but other factors can have an effect. Players generally don't want to come to a team if they think the coach will be changed next year.


 

5. Caldwell spent TWO years overhauling the defense. Last year the Jags added Odrick, House, Skuta, and Brown, and drafted Fowler. And even if the defense was good last year the Jags would have gone after key free agents. It's what you do with the highest cap total. The offense was not a problem last year and the Jags still added a RB and OT on that side of the team.


 

And you forgot:


 

6. Defensive Coordinator Bob Babich was fired.


 

So defensive coaching was considered a factor by the Jags management. Offhand I'd say case 2, both personnel and coaching were the problem. The question is did Bradley get the maximum out of the players he had? Not from my perspective. Other teams with worse personnel had better results on defense. There's no excuse in giving up a near (one less than the) team record number of points against the weakest offensive opposition in Jaguars history. Go back and look at the Jags roster from 2011 when they were 11th in points given up. Were they really that much better?

 

My further concern beyond just Bradley is that Todd Wash is simply his boy from back in the day.  Time will tell but nothing gives me a warm fuzzy that we have legitimate coaching on the defensive side of the ball.

---

1, 2, and 3 are given.


4. Whatever Dave Caldwell thinks about Bradley, Khan didn't want the Jags to be another Cleveland Browns. So Gus had to stay. The extension (just one year) was to facilitate free agency and team unity. In free agency money rules, but other factors can have an effect. Players generally don't want to come to a team if they think the coach will be changed next year.


5. Caldwell spent TWO years overhauling the defense. Last year the Jags added Odrick, House, Skuta, and Brown, and drafted Fowler. And even if the defense was good last year the Jags would have gone after key free agents. It's what you do with the highest cap total. The offense was not a problem last year and the Jags still added a RB and OT on that side of the team.


And you forgot:


6. Defensive Coordinator Bob Babich was fired.


So defensive coaching was considered a factor by the Jags management. Offhand I'd say case 2, both personnel and coaching were the problem. The question is did Bradley get the maximum out of the players he had? Not from my perspective. Other teams with worse personnel had better results on defense. There's no excuse in giving up a near (one less than the) team record number of points against the weakest offensive opposition in Jaguars history. Go back and look at the Jags roster from 2011 when they were 11th in points given up. Were they really that much better?

I think Bob Babich probably needed to go, sure. But the fan base was also extremely bloodthirsty at the time and Bradley's hand was forced; he had to make a sacrificial offer.


But the point remains. David Caldwell explicitedly said he was going to fix the defense over the course of this offseason. Did he fire the defensive minded head coach? No. Were 4 of his 5 big name free agents defensive upgrades? Yes. Were 6 of his 7 draft picks defensive players? Yes.


What's that tell you about where David Caldwell falls on the debate between talent level vs coaching ability? Bear in mind Babich's replacement came from in house and is basically a direct extension of Bradley's philosophy.

---

Lol. You provided 5 facts that have nothing to do with the head coach... man, I am beginning to see why you get roasted so hard in the political forum...


With all due respect, you are absolutely rationalizing in order to keep your predisposed position.


What's worse is that you omit facts that hurt your position. That's just sloppy debating, young man. You need to work on that.

Dave Caldwell is smarter than you and all of us when it comes to football.


I'll let him make the decisions.

---

I am not a Gus believer at this point, but I am hoping with the amount of talent on this team now we will see his scheme finally work here and we will pick up more Ws and I can see us getting 9-10 wins if all goes well. 10 wins should win this division, so I am hoping Gus and co. show up and show out this season and get a home playoff game in Jacksonville. 

 

Gus' biggest fault to date has been placing his trust into a terrible D Coordinator (due to his NDSU connection & loyalty).

 

The players around the league love Gus and the enthusiastic direction the Jags are taking.  It's perfect for the mentality of today's players.  IF, Todd Wash can coach at the DC level with any efficiency, Gus can just steer the boat and we'll ultimately reach our island destination.

 

Re:  Game Management.  That will improve with the veteran leadership of Bortles and some key people on D that will run the show in critical situation.

---

I can agree with the premise here--- At least on the O-line.  I think we've done enough and have gotten healthy enough on the D-Line that the D-Line is no longer a liability like it has been.

 

The O-Line is questionable.  That is the one unit that is concerning.  If Linder remains healthy, and the off season pick ups contribute, we may have a respectable O-Line.  But I'll concede that the O-Line is still not dominate compared to the rest of the division...  At best we push against the rest of the AFCS offensive lines.

 

But even with that liability, I think we have enough match-ups that favor the Jaguars that we can over-come the weakness in the O-Line.  Again, to me the biggest glaring issue in terms of confidence against the rest of the division is the coaching matchup...

 

Mularkey V Bradley is a push...

But Braley V. Pagano and Brdley V. O'Brian is a clear advantage to the other side...

 

EDIT:  Of course this feeling I have regarding Bradley is not static.  I'm willing to let Bradley prove me wrong.  But I'm not in the camp where I am able to ignore the reality that has been Bradley's ineptitude up till this point.  The dude has been out of his element for the entire time he's been a HC.  To say otherwise is just flat out ignoring EVERY GAME of EVERY SEASON so far with the exception of the clot home game in 2015...

 

As to the first underlined text, having the defensive line not be the liability it was is NOT the same as being the best in the AFC South, which was the initial standard you set forth that triggered my response to you.  I agree the DLine should be improved this year with the addition of Jackson, Fowler, and the draft picks this year.  But I'm not yet prepared to say it's a better defensive line than Houston's.

 

The second emphasized text I agree with in principle.  There may be situations where it may cost us a game or so, but I think overall, the improvement with the skill positions will offset weaknesses elsewhere.

 

I'm actually still concerned with the kicking, TBH.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Gus' biggest fault to date has been placing his trust into a terrible D Coordinator (due to his NDSU connection & loyalty).

 

 

 

This is such a misplaced assessment, IMO. This is the risk when you hire a young up-and-coming HC.

 

Who did JDR hire as his assistants when he first become a HC here?

 

Who did Mike Smith hire as assistants when he went to Atlanta?

 

Even now, JDR brought in guys in Oakland...even someone he already fired while at Jax.

 

Take a look at Tampa's staff under Koetter.

 

When you're a young HC starting up, you're going to have to hire guys that you know and trust. People who you worked with. I don't have a problem with him hiring Babich. The issue is that he lasted one year too long. Although perhaps Gus didn't want to have both the offense and defensive coordinators revamped in the same off-season.

---

As to the first underlined text, having the defensive line not be the liability it was is NOT the same as being the best in the AFC South, which was the initial standard you set forth that triggered my response to you. I agree the DLine should be improved this year with the addition of Jackson, Fowler, and the draft picks this year. But I'm not yet prepared to say it's a better defensive line than Houston's.


The second emphasized text I agree with in principle. There may be situations where it may cost us a game or so, but I think overall, the improvement with the skill positions will offset weaknesses elsewhere.


I'm actually still concerned with the kicking, TBH.

Dang it, bullseye, you made me have to go back and recheck my work!


Believe me, I'm not playing lawyer ball here, but I said our overall talent is superior, not that our talent was superior in every facet... that's a key point, which allows me to say our o-line and d-line may not be the best in the division, but they are not so abysmal as they were last year to which they become a liability that is difficult to overcome. And with that said, the free agent addition of Jackson, along with Fowler, marks, and our new rookies could potentially make our d-line a strength. I think the Texans, as you said are still the top d-line, but we have the potential now to give them a run. It's just a matter of proving it now.


As for the kicking game, I didn't mention it in my posts, but yeah... we should all be worried about that aspect of the team. I'm hoping Myers got a really good therapist and had been seeing her weekly if not more.

---

Lol. You provided 5 facts that have nothing to do with the head coach... man, I am beginning to see why you get roasted so hard in the political forum...


With all due respect, you are absolutely rationalizing in order to keep your predisposed position.


What's worse is that you omit facts that hurt your position. That's just sloppy debating, young man. You need to work on that.

The bottom line is......if we lose more than is expected, everyone can find solace in the fact that Gus will probably be fired. If we win, well, YEY! 

 

This is a good year regardless. The folks that want Gus out will get that with the poor result. No way he is retained with a bad record. 

---