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TravC59 · 10-21-2015, 09:02 AM

What kills me, the BCC folks, like many fans, aren't looking at the big picture. The improvement made from game one last year til now is tremendous. We were getting beat at a clip that wasn't seen before over the first 6-8 games. It was historical scoring figures we were losing by. That has improved greatly. We are a play here or there from winning games. The roster is the youngest in the league. The time is coming. Just have to be patient.

TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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Adam2012 · 10-21-2015, 12:09 PM

Quote:What kills me, the BCC folks, like many fans, aren't looking at the big picture. The improvement made from game one last year til now is tremendous. We were getting beat at a clip that wasn't seen before over the first 6-8 games. It was historical scoring figures we were losing by. That has improved greatly. We are a play here or there from winning games. The roster is the youngest in the league. The time is coming. Just have to be patient.

You know people aren't going to buy that. They've watched football on television - they know what needs to be done.

The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Deacon · 10-21-2015, 01:01 PM

Quote:What kills me, the BCC folks, like many fans, aren't looking at the big picture. The improvement made from game one last year til now is tremendous. We were getting beat at a clip that wasn't seen before over the first 6-8 games. It was historical scoring figures we were losing by. That has improved greatly. We are a play here or there from winning games. The roster is the youngest in the league. The time is coming. Just have to be patient.

And I really don't think people have a grasp on just how bad the roster was by the time Ol' Gene Smith got done with it. Did you see that list that popped up in the O-Zone from today? The "core players" for this team should be the First through Third Round selections from 2009 through 2012. The eleven players selected from those twelve spots are:

Eugene Monroe, Eben Britton, Terrance Knighton, Derek Cox - 2009

Tyson Alualu, D'Anthony Smith - 2010

Blaine Gabbert, Will Rackley - 2011

Justin Blackmon, Andre Branch, Bryan Anger - 2013



Just look at that list! Only seven (seven!!!) of those players are even in the League, much less playing the role of a core contributor for anyone, not just Jacksonville! And one is a Special Teams only guy. Caldwell didn't have a rebuild job, there was nothing left to rebuild. He had to start from the ground up but he didn't even have the advantage of an Expansion Draft.

And then, in his first draft this is what he was looking at for First Round selections:

Eric Fisher T, Luke Joeckel T, Dion Jordan DE, Lane Johnson T, Ziggy Ansah DE, Barkevious Mingo LB, Jonathan Cooper G, Tavon Austin WR, Dee Milliner DB, Chance Warmack G, D.J. Fluker T, D.J. Hayden DB, Sheldon Richardson DT, Star Lotulelei DT, Kenny Vaccaro DB, E.J. Manuel QB, Jarvis Jones LB, Eric Reid DB, Justin Pugh T, Kyle Long G, Tyler Eifert TE, Desmond Trufant DB, Sharrif Floyd DT, Bjoern Werner DE, Xavier Rhodes DB, Datone Jones DE, DeAndre Hopkins WR, Sylvester Williams DT, Cordarrelle Patterson WR, Alec Ogletree LB, Travis Frederick C, and Matt Elam DB.

You're supposed to rebuild your franchise from the ground up from that?!?! That class was so bad that four (four!!!) Guards were selected in the First Round. I'm not saying that the team doesn't need to make improvement and a lot of it, but I am pointing out that I don't think any team ever was faced with the situation that Jacksonville was in when Khan took ownership. It's as close to the literal and non-exaggerated term of "historical" as you can possibly get.

I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

UCF Knight · 10-21-2015, 02:49 PM

Quote:And I really don't think people have a grasp on just how bad the condition that the roster was in by the time Ol' Gene Smith got done with it. Did you see that list that popped up in the O-Zone from today? The "core players" for this team should be the First through Third Round selections from 2009 through 2012. The eleven players selected from those twelve spots are:

Eugene Monroe, Eben Britton, Terrance Knighton, Derek Cox - 2009

Tyson Alualu, D'Anthony Smith - 2010

Blaine Gabbert, Will Rackley - 2011

Justin Blackmon, Andre Branch, Bryan Anger - 2013



Just look at that list! Only seven of those players are even in the League, much less core contributors for anyone, not just Jacksonville! And one is a Special Teams only guy. Caldwell didn't have a rebuild job, there was nothing left to rebuild. He had to start from the ground up.

And then, in his first draft this is what he was looking at for First Round selections:

Eric Fisher T, Luke Joeckel T, Dion Jordan DE, Lane Johnson T, Ziggy Ansah DE, Barkevious Mingo LB, Jonathan Cooper G, Tavon Austin WR, Dee Milliner DB, Chance Warmack G, D.J. Fluker T, D.J. Hayden DB, Sheldon Richardson DT, Star Lotulelei DT, Kenny Vaccaro DB, E.J. Manuel QB, Jarvis Jones LB, Eric Reid DB, Justin Pugh T, Kyle Long G, Tyler Eifert TE, Desmond Trufant DB, Sharrif Floyd DT, Bjoern Werner DE, Xavier Rhodes DB, Datone Jones DE, DeAndre Hopkins WR, Sylvester Williams DT, Cordarrelle Patterson WR, Alec Ogletree LB, Travis Frederick C, and Matt Elam DB.

You're supposed to rebuild your franchise from the ground up from that?!?! That class was so bad that four, four!!!, Guards were selected in the First Round. I'm not saying that the team doesn't need to make improvement and a lot of it. But I am pointing out that I don't think any team ever was faced with the situation that Jacksonville was in when Khan took over the team. It's as close to the literal and non-exaggerated term of "historical" as you can possibly get.

My only issue with the way they handled the roster in Dave's first year was how they completely blew it up and really didn't add any pieces that first year. There was no reason they had to let go of a guy like Darryl Smith, and I know there were others that still had gas left in the tank and weren't taking up a ton of cap room. They completely stripped this team down to nothing and I feel like we're still fighting back from that.

I still think we're missing that veteran presence on the team that can rally the troops when the time comes.

Deacon · 10-21-2015, 02:55 PM

Quote:My only issue with the way they handled the roster in Dave's first year was how they completely blew it up and really didn't add any pieces that first year. There was no reason they had to let go of a guy like Darryl Smith, and I know there were others that still had gas left in the tank and weren't taking up a ton of cap room. They completely stripped this team down to nothing and I feel like we're still fighting back from that.

I still think we're missing that veteran presence on the team that can rally the troops when the time comes.

I get that, but what was Daryl Smith going to do on this roster? Yeah, he was a veteran and he was (is!) still pretty good but he's still an old school MIKE 'backer. I would have liked him on the team but it's not like they cut him. They just let him go to FA and didn't try to re-sign him I believe.

The Monroe situation was a 50 - 50 thing for me because I get that they wanted more draft picks for 2014 so why not use a guy whose replacement is already on the roster? Granted, losing him does strip down the veteran presence like you point out but is veteran presence worth Allen Robinson and / or Brandon Linder? I really don't know the answer to that but I get the mentality behind the move.

All in all, I get the feeling that Caldwell looked at the roster and knew that things were going to be bad so why not risk making them that much worse if it could get you some future pieces? I don't know if that's the right way to go about things or not because like I stated before I don't know if any Front Office was ever faced with this kind of situation.

I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!