Once again, the "report" documenting failure is nothing more than a political tool.  The worst thing to do, especially in today's world is "advertise" success or failure regarding anything.

I see, I understand what you're saying now, sorry for the confusion.


I'm still not sure I can endorse something like torture without knowing the details.

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Sure, but you're not breaking anyone's will by punching them in the mouth.  Just their jaw.

I don't see how it isn't torture.

I was just kind of remarking that something being unpleasant doesn't necessarily make it torture.

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I see, I understand what you're saying now, sorry for the confusion.


I'm still not sure I can endorse something like torture without knowing the details.

 

In my mind, it's something that never should have been brought up.  The real "details" will never be "common knowledge" and they shouldn't be, especially in today's world.

 

If you want to call it "torture" fine.  The fact of the matter is that it's not really "torture" as far as I'm concerned.  I personally don't have the need or desire to know what the "details" are regarding our enhanced interrogation techniques.

 

I can tell you this though, I have full faith in our men and women that carry out this mission.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

In my mind, it's something that never should have been brought up.  The real "details" will never be "common knowledge" and they shouldn't be, especially in today's world.

 

If you want to call it "torture" fine.  The fact of the matter is that it's not really "torture" as far as I'm concerned.  I personally don't have the need or desire to know what the "details" are regarding our enhanced interrogation techniques.

 

I can tell you this though, I have full faith in our men and women that carry out this mission.

Are we talking about water boarding? I said I didn't consider that torture. Other than that I have no knowledge of what we are using or not using so I can't say what is and isn't torture specifically.


I'm using that term in general because it's what the OP used.

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Are we talking about water boarding? I said I didn't consider that torture. Other than that I have no knowledge of what we are using or not using so I can't say what is and isn't torture specifically.


I'm using that term in general because it's what the OP used.

 

I still want to know why you don't consider it torture. What makes it 'not torture'?

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I still want to know why you don't consider it torture. What makes it 'not torture'?

Oh, sorry. I'm not sure if I can even give you a very good answer to be honest, it's just my super amateur feeling on it.


I guess I'd say because to my knowledge it doesn't cause permanent damage or an immense amount of pain. It seems like more of a fear inducing tactic.


Maybe jagibelieve can weigh in here.

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Nope I'm against using torture even when you call it something else.

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Nope I'm against using torture even when you call it something else.

 

What is torture? Waterboarding? Sleep Deprivation? Lopping off  body parts? The Rack? The unabridged Hillary Clinton Speech Compendium read by the orator? So many things it could be based on what you want it to be.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

This is a very sticky subject.

 

 

It can be if you do it right!  :thumbsup:

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Oh, sorry. I'm not sure if I can even give you a very good answer to be honest, it's just my super amateur feeling on it.


I guess I'd say because to my knowledge it doesn't cause permanent damage or an immense amount of pain. It seems like more of a fear inducing tactic.


Maybe jagibelieve can weigh in here.

Sure it causes permanent damage and an immense amount of pain.  

http://content.time.com/time/nation/arti...21,00.html

 

 
 

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Nope I'm against using torture even when you call it something else.

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Yep.  And just imagine if some of those being tortured are innocent.  If even 5% of them are innocent, is that an acceptable number?

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

[quote name="The Eleventh Doctor" post="500531" timestamp="1435021602"]

Sure it causes permanent damage and an immense amount of pain. [url="<a class="bbc_url" href='http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1892721,00.html%22%5Dhttp://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1892721,00.html'>http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1892721,00.html"]http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1892721,00.html</a>[/url/quote]


I mean physically.

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Torture doesn't work for one simple reason, proven by neuroscience repeatedly: the person you're inflicting great distress on is more likely to tell you what they think you want to hear to make it stop than they are likely to tell you the truth. There are other factors in play as well, detailed here: http://www.newsweek.com/neurosciencetort...-why-79365

 

Beyond that, read the article linked below about how the US tortures its captives. If you're not a little bit sickened by the end of it, you should be. Not everyone tortured had a hand in the deaths of thousands.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/...eprivation

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I am against the use of torture.  The reason is, the United States represents something in the world: enlightenment.  Human rights.  High ideals.  Lowering ourselves to the level of our enemies might result in us gaining some actionable intelligence, but it gives up the very thing we are fighting for: our ideals.   Why are we fighting these guys, anyway, if we're going to be just like they are?  What's the point?  Besides, the whole world sees this and says, "The United States is no different than the people they are fighting.  I'll just sit this one out." 

 

So, no, I don't think it is a good idea to torture people. 

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Pretty obvious when torturing someone there gonna give you crap information because thats what they think you want. Plus its inhuman. Needs to stop. 

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Last couple years of Jag games can be considered torture. Yet so many went willingly. The pools are secret water boarding areas, providing relief from the blistering sun and getting blistered on the field.

So it's all relative.

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Blakes Life Matters

What is torture? Waterboarding? Sleep Deprivation? Lopping off body parts? The Rack? The unabridged Hillary Clinton Speech Compendium read by the orator? So many things it could be based on what you want it to be.

Torture is the purposeful cause of pain to gain information from distress. Discomfort is not he same as pain.

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Several aspects to this issue.

 

First, waterboarding is not torture in my opinion. Thousands of service members have been waterboarded in training. Waterboarding is TOUGH and you will talk. Some folks talk after one session and some hold out longer but EVERYONE talks.

Sleep deprivation is more effective then waterboarding in my opinion, but it can be a drawn out process.

Again, I think waterboarding and sleep deprivation are more in line with enhanced interrogation, not torture.

I will speak to what I know about and that is enhanced interrogation.

If you define the enhanced interrogation as torture then I think we'll just have to disagree there.

 

 

Second, if you do not think enhanced interrogation works I beg to differ.  People will give you answers but every single bit of intelligence is vetted by at least three other sources. Once the intelligence is verified as valid it can be acted upon. The US does not just rush off on a mission on one source of information. There is very careful vetting of all intelligence gained from detainees. There has been many successful operations conducted based on intelligence gained from enhanced interrogation.

 

Lastly, I'm against the use of real torture ( cutting off fingers , etc..) but enhanced interrogation works. War is a very nasty business, killing, destroying and interrogation is part of that. We can say we are better or above it but when American lives are on the line you do what is necessary.

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Last couple years of Jag games can be considered torture. Yet so many went willingly. The pools are secret water boarding areas, providing relief from the blistering sun and getting blistered on the field.

So it's all relative.

I think everyone can agree with this definition of torture.

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Several aspects to this issue.

 

First, waterboarding is not torture in my opinion. Thousands of service members have been waterboarded in training. Waterboarding is TOUGH and you will talk. Some folks talk after one session and some hold out longer but EVERYONE talks.

Sleep deprivation is more effective then waterboarding in my opinion, but it can be a drawn out process.

Again, I think waterboarding and sleep deprivation are more in line with enhanced interrogation, not torture.

I will speak to what I know about and that is enhanced interrogation.

If you define the enhanced interrogation as torture then I think we'll just have to disagree there.

 

 

Second, if you do not think enhanced interrogation works I beg to differ.  People will give you answers but every single bit of intelligence is vetted by at least three other sources. Once the intelligence is verified as valid it can be acted upon. The US does not just rush off on a mission on one source of information. There is very careful vetting of all intelligence gained from detainees. There has been many successful operations conducted based on intelligence gained from enhanced interrogation.

 

Lastly, I'm against the use of real torture ( cutting off fingers , etc..) but enhanced interrogation works. War is a very nasty business, killing, destroying and interrogation is part of that. We can say we are better or above it but when American lives are on the line you do what is necessary.

 

Very well put.  I was just getting ready to discuss "torture" vs. "enhanced interrogation techniques".

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Sure it causes permanent damage and an immense amount of pain.  

http://content.time.com/time/nation/arti...21,00.html

 

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</div>

 

Not really, considering the technique used by our counter intelligence agencies is pretty safe.  Not only that, the people that endure it may suffer some "psychological pain", but it won't be for long.  Eventually the two mentioned in the article will be taking a permanent "dirt nap".

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.