i think your logic is flawed. you say any season that doesn't end with a super bowl is not measured as successful. i think it's important to build a roster to put yourself to be in a position to win as many super bowls as possible. Reid will get a lot out of Smith because players like Smith can be surrounded by elite talent and win division titles. if you build your team to make it to the playoffs with home field advantage in one or two games, then you put yourself in a great position to win lombardi trophies. just because mcnabb or kelly never won a super bowl doesn't condemn the practice of building a proper team.


however i would take a rodgers or brees over mcnabb or kelly 9 times out of 10, because those guys can by themselves win you the division, get hot, and win the super bowl. but building a roster and choosing the perfect QB for your system are not mutually exclusive. you want to get a serviceable qb to start while your elite player develops. brady, rodgers, and to a similar extent brees (who was the starter, but in the wrong system) are examples of that. manning is the exception, you most likely over reach and get a safford or worse alex smith - who can do well, but shouldn't be picked at the top of the draft while the opportunity allows you to develop an elite position elsewhere.

I agreed with most until you said Stafford isn't elite. True, he hasn't won anything but he is elite in my opinion. I would gladly take Stafford as the starter in Jax.

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I agreed with most until you said Stafford isn't elite. True, he hasn't won anything but he is elite in my opinion. I would gladly take Stafford as the starter in Jax.

 

I believe that you can win a SB with Stafford. He's not a game manager mentality like Alex Smith. 

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I agreed with most until you said Stafford isn't elite. True, he hasn't won anything but he is elite in my opinion. I would gladly take Stafford as the starter in Jax.

 

I don't think he's half the QB he appears to be without Megatron.  His reliance on Megatron alone skews his production.  When a QB targets a single guy as much as he did, that doesn't speak well.  He was relying on his "go to" to bail him out too often and not looking to distribute the ball around like he should.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

I believe that you can win a SB with Stafford. He's not a game manager mentality like Alex Smith. 

 

Just a Larry Lock On.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Just a Larry Lock On.

 

If most QB had a Megatron on their team, they'd probably overrely on him too. I've seen the guy beat triple coverage for long yardage before. 

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I'm so happy the title was changed to "Tinfoil"

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

I agreed with most until you said Stafford isn't elite. True, he hasn't won anything but he is elite in my opinion. I would gladly take Stafford as the starter in Jax.

I think some folks use the term elite way too loosely. Stafford is a franchise qb, just like Eli, Matt Ryan, etc... those guys, with good pieces around them will be successful, but they are hardly elite. There are only 3 of those in the game right now.


As a Jaguar fan, I want an elite qb badly, but the odds are very low. If Caldwell can build talent at the key positions a good qb will be successful. That's more likely to be our course over the next few years.

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I call Elite the top 5 at the position. Manning Brees Rodgers Brady Stafford.. Many people can disagree and that's fine but Stafford throwin gane winning TD with a dislocated shoulder is something an elite QB would do. Maybe I overrate him a little but how far from top 5 is he? Can you honestly say Cam, Dalton Rivers, Big Ben or Wilson are better?

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I call Elite the top 5 at the position. Manning Brees Rodgers Brady Stafford.. Many people can disagree and that's fine but Stafford throwin gane winning TD with a dislocated shoulder is something an elite QB would do. Maybe I overrate him a little but how far from top 5 is he? Can you honestly say Cam, Dalton Rivers, Big Ben or Wilson are better?

I see it in terms of tiers... the elite tier had only those 3. Then there's a fairly large bottle neck of very good qb's. Stafford to me is on the bottom of the very good tier.


To me, ranking solely on a number basis over inflates the talents of alot of these qb's

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Oops, double post

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I call Elite the top 5 at the position. Manning Brees Rodgers Brady Stafford.. Many people can disagree and that's fine but Stafford throwin gane winning TD with a dislocated shoulder is something an elite QB would do. Maybe I overrate him a little but how far from top 5 is he? Can you honestly say Cam, Dalton Rivers, Big Ben or Wilson are better?

A case could be made that Rivers is better.  I think he'd be lethal with an elite WR to go to frequently.  (this Keenan Allen kid might come close over time)

Rivers makes Eddie Royal look much better than he is IMO. 

 

He hasn't missed a game in 8 seasons and has thrown for over 4000 yards in 5 of those seasons.   He's pretty darn good. 

 

Cam  Newton may prove to be better if he stays on the current course and the Panthers get him a decent compliment to Smith. Time will tell. 

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I call Elite the top 5 at the position. Manning Brees Rodgers Brady Stafford.. Many people can disagree and that's fine but Stafford throwin gane winning TD with a dislocated shoulder is something an elite QB would do. Maybe I overrate him a little but how far from top 5 is he? Can you honestly say Cam, Dalton Rivers, Big Ben or Wilson are better?

 

Rivers and Ben easily.  Wilson very much arguably.

 

In my opinion.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

I have a question. Are there any truly elite black QB's?? Has there ever been??

 

I can only think of 3 that reached the Super Bowl and none of them were what I consider elite.

 

I guess a QB can be considered elite if he never reached the Super Bowl, but it sure helps the arguement if he does.

 

All the elite QB's listed in previous posts have made and won the SB, with the exception of Stafford, although I don't consider him elite myself, franchise maybe, but not elite.

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I survived the Gus Bradley Error.

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Just to be different, Bortles.

I have a question. Are there any truly elite black QB's?? Has there ever been??

 

I can only think of 3 that reached the Super Bowl and none of them were what I consider elite.

 

I guess a QB can be considered elite if he never reached the Super Bowl, but it sure helps the arguement if he does.

 

All the elite QB's listed in previous posts have made and won the SB, with the exception of Stafford, although I don't consider him elite myself, franchise maybe, but not elite.

 

Donovan McNabb was actually pretty good and under appreciated in Philly.

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I have a question. Are there any truly elite black QB's?? Has there ever been??

 

I can only think of 3 that reached the Super Bowl and none of them were what I consider elite.

 

 

 

I don't know about elite, but Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNabb, Colin Kaepernick, Doug Williams, are/ were all very good. 

 

Just because there hasn't been doesn't mean there cannot be one. Teddy has all the elite QB attributes. 

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I think some folks use the term elite way too loosely. Stafford is a franchise qb, just like Eli, Matt Ryan, etc... those guys, with good pieces around them will be successful, but they are hardly elite. There are only 3 of those in the game right now.


As a Jaguar fan, I want an elite qb badly, but the odds are very low. If Caldwell can build talent at the key positions a good qb will be successful. That's more likely to be our course over the next few years.

I got 4 by my count. Brady, Brees, Manning, and Rodgers.

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I don't know about elite, but Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNabb, Colin Kaepernick, Doug Williams, are/ were all very good. 

 

Just because there hasn't been doesn't mean there cannot be one. Teddy has all the elite QB attributes. 

 

Sorry, but he's miles behind even an Andrew Luck.  He doesn't even sniff "elite."

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Sorry, but he's miles behind even an Andrew Luck.  He doesn't even sniff "elite."

 

....so I take it that you will be disappointed if we draft him then?....

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I have a question. Are there any truly elite black QB's?? Has there ever been??

 

I can only think of 3 that reached the Super Bowl and none of them were what I consider elite.

 

I guess a QB can be considered elite if he never reached the Super Bowl, but it sure helps the arguement if he does.

 

All the elite QB's listed in previous posts have made and won the SB, with the exception of Stafford, although I don't consider him elite myself, franchise maybe, but not elite.

 

When I hear the term "elite" I think HOF'er.  When I hear elite, I think Elway, Marino, Montana, Moon, Kelley, Manning, and Brady...  I put Drew Breese in the elite category as well, but I'm not sure he'll be in the HOF.  

 

The rest of the QB's in the League right now are not in that class.  That's just how I consider Elite.  Those QB I mentioned are all time great.  When you say elite, that's what I think of.  QB's that have no or VERY few flaws in their games.

 

The "good/very good" QBs that make up the league now all have some flaws that allow another good/very good QB to beat them with a good team around them.  It also means that a "good/very good" QB that doesn't have the right team around them will not make the playoffs.  IE Eli, Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Stafford, Keap, Wilson, ETC...  All the QB's except for Manning and Brady couldn't make the playoffs without a good surround team in all three aspects of the game.  

 

That's just me.  Maybe I'm too picky in terms of QB play, but I grew up watching Marino and Elway and Montana.  Those dudes were ELITE.  To say elite to me means something more than just what ESPN and their weak minded football talk speaks of when they talk about ELITE.  It's ridiculous to put the caveman into any conversation of elite, and yet I heard it all Monday long on the radio from the ESPN bibbers--- From Mike&Mike to Cowterd to SVP to all the idiot ex-coaches and analysts.  I think you have to realize they are pushing the agenda of ratings and they want to talk about GOATS and future HOF'ers.  But there aren't that many in this current crop of staring QBs.  Besides of course Brady, Manning, and possibly Breese.

 

Remember when they were touting Big Ben as Elite?  LOL, there's no way you can consider him elite, even with his 2 SB wins.  He's just not that good.  He won because of the team around him.  Not because he's an Elite QB.  Same with Eli.  

 

Edit:  I forgot to mention Rodgers in the same Vein as Breese...  Both are right up there.

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