The whipper snappers need to learn a thing or two about patience.

The sad part about this is I am old enough to appreciate the descriptors here.

But I can get the impatience.

Supporting a team mired in losing is not easy.  You want it to stop and stop now.  Some Jaguars fans have never known this team to win until now.

I remember during my Dallas days between 1986-1989.

All I had known in my life were winning Dallas teams.  

Those four years were a nightmare.  But hiring Jimmy Johnson and seeing the Herschel Walker trade gave hope for the future.  I just had to see it through.

Those four years-and to a lesser extent the years immediately prior-made me see that football, as a general rule, is cyclical, and there are ebbs and flows.

It helped me better understand and be able to tolerate 2008-2016.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I just want to say, I hope this season finally makes most of you realize the truth behind rebuilds: it does not take 4 years or more. That is and always has been BS that a lot of you bought in too and defended endlessly over this past decade.  Not just us proving it this year but the rams too.

With the right leaders (coughlin, marrone too) and free agency, you can turn things around in 1 or 2 years.

Once our window closes years down the line, I hope you guys remember that next time and dont accept 3 to 5 wins for 4 years at a time. Real football men at the top can turn things around much quicker

Good lord the above take is so off base.  What this team has done over the past 4 offseasons is going to be the blueprint for bottom feeder teams for years to come.  And that blueprint is a full rebuild which involves gutting the roster, having a good evaluator of talent to be able to hit on the majority of your picks, freeing up significant cap space to coincide with year 3 of the rebuild and beyond so you can sign top free agents at the appropriate time and that's all combined with some patience from ownership and fans.  

The only thing you're correct about is that we are probably 1 year behind schedule with that atrocious 2013 draft to start off the rebuild, but Caldwell was a first time GM coming into a building with scouts he had never worked with and built trust in so considering where we're at now he absolutely deserves a pass for that year.  You could argue that Gus was the perfect hire if they knew going in they wanted a guy to be able to do his best to keep morale high while losing so they could continue to pick as high as possible until it was time for the real guy to take over.  That's pure speculation, but it sure worked out brilliantly in retrospect.  They even held on to him beyond the point they should have until the situation was completely unpalatable.  It's almost like they identified that the most important thing was to get the highest draft pick possible for the following draft and didn't want to screw that up by winning too many games under Marrone.  

This team's performance this year really shined a light on Caldwell as a talent evaluator.  He'll be a hot commodity when his contract here is up and I don't see him remaining here and getting paid his due unless Tom decides to sail off into the sunset at that point.

---

I just want to say, I hope this season finally makes most of you realize the truth behind rebuilds: it does not take 4 years or more. That is and always has been BS that a lot of you bought in too and defended endlessly over this past decade.  Not just us proving it this year but the rams too.

With the right leaders (coughlin, marrone too) and free agency, you can turn things around in 1 or 2 years.

Once our window closes years down the line, I hope you guys remember that next time and dont accept 3 to 5 wins for 4 years at a time. Real football men at the top can turn things around much quicker

Good lord the above take is so off base.  What this team has done over the past 4 offseasons is going to be the blueprint for bottom feeder teams for years to come.  And that blueprint is a full rebuild which involves gutting the roster, having a good evaluator of talent to be able to hit on the majority of your picks, freeing up significant cap space to coincide with year 3 of the rebuild and beyond so you can sign top free agents at the appropriate time and that's all combined with some patience from ownership and fans.  

The only thing you're correct about is that we are probably 1 year behind schedule with that atrocious 2013 draft to start off the rebuild, but Caldwell was a first time GM coming into a building with scouts he had never worked with and built trust in so considering where we're at now he absolutely deserves a pass for that year.  You could argue that Gus was the perfect hire if they knew going in they wanted a guy to be able to do his best to keep morale high while losing so they could continue to pick as high as possible until it was time for the real guy to take over.  That's pure speculation, but it sure worked out brilliantly in retrospect.  They even held on to him beyond the point they should have until the situation was completely unpalatable.  It's almost like they identified that the most important thing was to get the highest draft pick possible for the following draft and didn't want to screw that up by winning too many games under Marrone.  

This team's performance this year really shined a light on Caldwell as a talent evaluator.  He'll be a hot commodity when his contract here is up and I don't see him remaining here and getting paid his due unless Tom decides to sail off into the sunset at that point.

While I agree with you generally, as to the part in bold, I don't think that will be the case unless and until we win it all.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Drafting, Free Agency.....fitting these moving parts together and then bouncing the head coach that was in waaaaay over his head.
The AHA! moment was Khan realizing he needed a real Coach and someone to run the football operations besides himself. He hired TC and stood back.
Enter Tom who immediately set to work and instilled a desire and drive in these men that they can play and win anywhere ....anytime.
Look out pats....the BIG CAT is still hungry.

---

"Stay tight, stay close. Great things are going to continue to happen for this football team."  - Doug Peterson

We won 3 games last year... 3... this team had enough talent last year to win 7 games easily.. many failed FA signings along the way too.

Had we kept gus this year and not added coughlin we would not be a playoff team.. had the rams kept fisher they would not be a playoff team

Not sure how anyone can argue that

Do Calais Campbell, Malik Jackson, Leonard Fournette, Cam Robinson, Dede Westbrook, Barry Church and A.J. Bouye add any value to this team?

Just to add a little bit to this point, a team can't assume that they too will be able to sign Campbell, Church and Bouye in one season like we did. 

Bouye and Campbell are All-Pros and it isn't assumed to be a part of every good rebuild process. We lucked out with those guys.

---

Do Calais Campbell, Malik Jackson, Leonard Fournette, Cam Robinson, Dede Westbrook, Barry Church and A.J. Bouye add any value to this team?

Just to add a little bit to this point, a team can't assume that they too will be able to sign Campbell, Church and Bouye in one season like we did. 

Bouye and Campbell are All-Pros and it isn't assumed to be a part of every good rebuild process. We lucked out with those guys.

Very good point. It's extremely rare for a team thats been bad for over a decade and coming off a 3-13 season to be seen as the premier free agent destination in the league. Particularly with a HC who appeared fairly unpopular with his former players. 

Credit Caldwell, Coughlin and I'd say Shad too for being able to sell a vision so well. They must have a really dynamic process for wooing FAs.

---

Do Calais Campbell, Malik Jackson, Leonard Fournette, Cam Robinson, Dede Westbrook, Barry Church and A.J. Bouye add any value to this team?

Just to add a little bit to this point, a team can't assume that they too will be able to sign Campbell, Church and Bouye in one season like we did. 

Bouye and Campbell are All-Pros and it isn't assumed to be a part of every good rebuild process. We lucked out with those guys.

Excellent point.

There was a lot that converged at just the right time to enable us to sign those guys.

We accumulated a good nucleus before then.  We added a two time Super Bowl winning coach to the organization.  We changed head coaches to Doug Marrone.  The schemes fit these guys perfectly.

We had an owner hungry to win and the cap room and cold cash to sign them.

Heck, first, those guys had to hit the market in the first place.

Rebuilding isn't that simple.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I just want to say, I hope this season finally makes most of you realize the truth behind rebuilds: it does not take 4 years or more. That is and always has been BS that a lot of you bought in too and defended endlessly over this past decade.  Not just us proving it this year but the rams too.

With the right leaders (coughlin, marrone too) and free agency, you can turn things around in 1 or 2 years.

Once our window closes years down the line, I hope you guys remember that next time and dont accept 3 to 5 wins for 4 years at a time. Real football men at the top can turn things around much quicker

I never accepted it...the media touted "sometimes it takes longer" blah blah.

Just look up Gus Bradley, literally one of the worst NFL head coaches of ALL TIME.  Enough said.

Leadership matters.  Coaching matters.

---

I just want to say, I hope this season finally makes most of you realize the truth behind rebuilds: it does not take 4 years or more. That is and always has been BS that a lot of you bought in too and defended endlessly over this past decade.  Not just us proving it this year but the rams too.

With the right leaders (coughlin, marrone too) and free agency, you can turn things around in 1 or 2 years.

Once our window closes years down the line, I hope you guys remember that next time and dont accept 3 to 5 wins for 4 years at a time. Real football men at the top can turn things around much quicker

I normally tend to agree, most rebuilds are short, 1 or 2 seasons. Teams tend to keep good players, and build on previous success. What we did though, was we had 1 guy come in (Gene Smith) who thought he had the ability to find every small school diamond in the rough, and drafted as such. He was the "smartest guy in the room", according to himself and himself alone. His picks set this team pack several seasons. Then we had a guy come and and completely eradicate our roster in Dave Caldwell. I honestly feel like Gus was brought here to keep hopes and attitudes in good standing during the onslaught of losses were almost guaranteed on a weekly basis. The combination of Gene and Dave put together about 8 years of complete and utter suckery on the field.  The difference with Caldwell is, he was actually drafting solid guys, outside of his 1st draft. His picks got better, regardless of who was coaching. We kept bringing in talent, and we finally got our QB to be at least average for most of the year, and that lead to a 10 win AFCS title, and a chance to play in the big one. 


Our situation was different in we followed up a terrible GM with a complete rebuild and removal of any and all impact players making any money. This probbaly added 3 seasons to our build easily, and in year 5 we finally got it done and should be set for a long, long time. If we go on to have 10 straight 10 win or more seasons, and win a title or 2, was it worth it? My answer would be yes.

---

Just to add a little bit to this point, a team can't assume that they too will be able to sign Campbell, Church and Bouye in one season like we did. 

Bouye and Campbell are All-Pros and it isn't assumed to be a part of every good rebuild process. We lucked out with those guys.

Very good point. It's extremely rare for a team thats been bad for over a decade and coming off a 3-13 season to be seen as the premier free agent destination in the league. Particularly with a HC who appeared fairly unpopular with his former players. 

Credit Caldwell, Coughlin and I'd say Shad too for being able to sell a vision so well. They must have a really dynamic process for wooing FAs.

Yeah, you "show 'em the money". Shad played a big role in that. From the moment he got here, he was spending money on players and facilities. Even though Jax is not a big and high profile market, if a player knows he's going to get competitive pay that sells itself. Those contract extensions that Hurns, Linder, and Telvin received with lots of guaranteed $, the agents and players around the league take notice of that

---

I just want to say, I hope this season finally makes most of you realize the truth behind rebuilds: it does not take 4 years or more. That is and always has been BS that a lot of you bought in too and defended endlessly over this past decade.  Not just us proving it this year but the rams too.

With the right leaders (coughlin, marrone too) and free agency, you can turn things around in 1 or 2 years.

Once our window closes years down the line, I hope you guys remember that next time and dont accept 3 to 5 wins for 4 years at a time. Real football men at the top can turn things around much quicker

Good lord the above take is so off base.  What this team has done over the past 4 offseasons is going to be the blueprint for bottom feeder teams for years to come.  And that blueprint is a full rebuild which involves gutting the roster, having a good evaluator of talent to be able to hit on the majority of your picks, freeing up significant cap space to coincide with year 3 of the rebuild and beyond so you can sign top free agents at the appropriate time and that's all combined with some patience from ownership and fans.  

The only thing you're correct about is that we are probably 1 year behind schedule with that atrocious 2013 draft to start off the rebuild, but Caldwell was a first time GM coming into a building with scouts he had never worked with and built trust in so considering where we're at now he absolutely deserves a pass for that year.  You could argue that Gus was the perfect hire if they knew going in they wanted a guy to be able to do his best to keep morale high while losing so they could continue to pick as high as possible until it was time for the real guy to take over.  That's pure speculation, but it sure worked out brilliantly in retrospect.  They even held on to him beyond the point they should have until the situation was completely unpalatable.  It's almost like they identified that the most important thing was to get the highest draft pick possible for the following draft and didn't want to screw that up by winning too many games under Marrone.  

This team's performance this year really shined a light on Caldwell as a talent evaluator.  He'll be a hot commodity when his contract here is up and I don't see him remaining here and getting paid his due unless Tom decides to sail off into the sunset at that point.

its funny, because even early in this year on the front page was discussion about caldwell and if he should be fired... then all the sudden this team starts winning and everything is once again forgotten

This team was immediately turned around with Tom Coughlin, and to a lesser degree Doug Marrone.  I am sorry you guys are so fickle in your memories and approval that you refuse to see that.  Obviously you have to rebuild at times, there's no denying that.  That is not what I am saying.  But you can have all the talent in the world and still be awful if you do not have the right coach, and I consider Coughlin an extension of the coaching staff.

We had a ton of talent last year, a TON.  Obviously free agency this year added more, but we had the talent of a 7 or 8 win team last year, and won 3

Stop twisting my words guys, there is no such thing as a 4 year 3 to 4 win rebuild with the right coach and right GM, end of story.

---

Good lord the above take is so off base.  What this team has done over the past 4 offseasons is going to be the blueprint for bottom feeder teams for years to come.  And that blueprint is a full rebuild which involves gutting the roster, having a good evaluator of talent to be able to hit on the majority of your picks, freeing up significant cap space to coincide with year 3 of the rebuild and beyond so you can sign top free agents at the appropriate time and that's all combined with some patience from ownership and fans.  

The only thing you're correct about is that we are probably 1 year behind schedule with that atrocious 2013 draft to start off the rebuild, but Caldwell was a first time GM coming into a building with scouts he had never worked with and built trust in so considering where we're at now he absolutely deserves a pass for that year.  You could argue that Gus was the perfect hire if they knew going in they wanted a guy to be able to do his best to keep morale high while losing so they could continue to pick as high as possible until it was time for the real guy to take over.  That's pure speculation, but it sure worked out brilliantly in retrospect.  They even held on to him beyond the point they should have until the situation was completely unpalatable.  It's almost like they identified that the most important thing was to get the highest draft pick possible for the following draft and didn't want to screw that up by winning too many games under Marrone.  

This team's performance this year really shined a light on Caldwell as a talent evaluator.  He'll be a hot commodity when his contract here is up and I don't see him remaining here and getting paid his due unless Tom decides to sail off into the sunset at that point.

its funny, because even early in this year on the front page was discussion about caldwell and if he should be fired... then all the sudden this team starts winning and everything is once again forgotten

This team was immediately turned around with Tom Coughlin, and to a lesser degree Doug Marrone.  I am sorry you guys are so fickle in your memories and approval that you refuse to see that.  Obviously you have to rebuild at times, there's no denying that.  That is not what I am saying.  But you can have all the talent in the world and still be awful if you do not have the right coach, and I consider Coughlin an extension of the coaching staff.

We had a ton of talent last year, a TON.  Obviously free agency this year added more, but we had the talent of a 7 or 8 win team last year, and won 3

Stop twisting my words guys, there is no such thing as a 4 year 3 to 4 win rebuild with the right coach and right GM, end of story.

You keep telling yourself that....

---

http://www.espn.com/blog/jacksonville-ja...-was-hired

I mean, if he was here last year, I dont think we would be in the AFC championship, but I guarantee you we would have won 7 or 8 games, that's without this year's FA haul

you guys can continue to defend your crazy views from years past where you were A OK with perpetual ineptitude at the coaching position and GM position before that, but it doesn't change the facts around the NFL.... only perennial losers continue to "rebuild" and continue to lose... teams with good leaders can turn things around in a single off season or 2 and the examples are plentiful and way more abundant than they are supporting the rest of your views where its OK to suck for 4 years

this isn't the NBA, where tanking ACTUALLY IS the ONLY way to improve because its a star driven league with very few of them, and now they only go to super teams already having stars. The NFL has the most parity of any league in the world for a reason. Coaching/scheme, etc matters so much more in football

---

Blah.

It took a year too long.

So what.

---

Krayz calling people's ideas crazy. Jags in AFC championship. What is going on!?!?

---

http://www.espn.com/blog/jacksonville-ja...-was-hired

I mean, if he was here last year, I dont think we would be in the AFC championship, but I guarantee you we would have won 7 or 8 games, that's without this year's FA haul

you guys can continue to defend your crazy views from years past where you were A OK with perpetual ineptitude at the coaching position and GM position before that, but it doesn't change the facts around the NFL.... only perennial losers continue to "rebuild" and continue to lose... teams with good leaders can turn things around in a single off season or 2 and the examples are plentiful and way more abundant than they are supporting the rest of your views where its OK to suck for 4 years

this isn't the NBA, where tanking ACTUALLY IS the ONLY way to improve because its a star driven league with very few of them, and now they only go to super teams already having stars.  The NFL has the most parity of any league in the world for a reason.  Coaching/scheme, etc matters so much more in football

How about giving me a single example of where a team dismantled an entire roster and 'turned it around in a year or two'.

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http://www.espn.com/blog/jacksonville-ja...-was-hired

I mean, if he was here last year, I dont think we would be in the AFC championship, but I guarantee you we would have won 7 or 8 games, that's without this year's FA haul

you guys can continue to defend your crazy views from years past where you were A OK with perpetual ineptitude at the coaching position and GM position before that, but it doesn't change the facts around the NFL.... only perennial losers continue to "rebuild" and continue to lose... teams with good leaders can turn things around in a single off season or 2 and the examples are plentiful and way more abundant than they are supporting the rest of your views where its OK to suck for 4 years

this isn't the NBA, where tanking ACTUALLY IS the ONLY way to improve because its a star driven league with very few of them, and now they only go to super teams already having stars.  The NFL has the most parity of any league in the world for a reason.  Coaching/scheme, etc matters so much more in football

How about giving me a single example of where a team dismantled an entire roster and 'turned it around in a year or two'.

From a pure numbers standpoint - it's impossible.

---

http://www.espn.com/blog/jacksonville-ja...-was-hired

I mean, if he was here last year, I dont think we would be in the AFC championship, but I guarantee you we would have won 7 or 8 games, that's without this year's FA haul

you guys can continue to defend your crazy views from years past where you were A OK with perpetual ineptitude at the coaching position and GM position before that, but it doesn't change the facts around the NFL.... only perennial losers continue to "rebuild" and continue to lose... teams with good leaders can turn things around in a single off season or 2 and the examples are plentiful and way more abundant than they are supporting the rest of your views where its OK to suck for 4 years

this isn't the NBA, where tanking ACTUALLY IS the ONLY way to improve because its a star driven league with very few of them, and now they only go to super teams already having stars.  The NFL has the most parity of any league in the world for a reason.  Coaching/scheme, etc matters so much more in football

So you are telling us that you'd rather have a 7-8 win season and not reach the AFC Championship (or more) the next year as opposed to a 3 win season and reaching the AFC championship game (or more) the next year?

Who is settling for mediocrity again?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I have a favor to ask of you, Krayz, or for that matter, anyone else interested.

I have searched the first 15 pages of the thread announcing Marrone as the new head coach, and I haven't seen a post from you lauding the hire.

Could you or anyone else provide links to Krayz's post or posts indicating Marrone was the right coach?

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=1415

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

We won 3 games last year... 3... this team had enough talent last year to win 7 games easily.. many failed FA signings along the way too.

Had we kept gus this year and not added coughlin we would not be a playoff team.. had the rams kept fisher they would not be a playoff team

Not sure how anyone can argue that

This has been mentioned in a few other threads:

The roster wasn't even close to what it is this season (especially on defense). Idk how Jax could've been close to this level even last season without these key players.

Campbell, Church, Bouye, Dareus weren't even here.

Ramsey, Jack, Yannick, Fowler were all  playing their inaugural seasons (Fowler was essentially a rookie).
That's 8 of 11 players just on that side. 

Offense: 
Cam, LF weren't even here. Linder was out hurt. 
The Jags were also playing without a FB (That has made a big difference this season).


The team was absolutely gutted, and it took a few years to get a bunch of new players from the draft and FA to get this thing to gel like it has.

The turnover on the O-LINE especially was high. There have been a ton of different players brought in the past 4-5 seasons to try and get that unit right. It's just now starting to pan out.

(Joeckel, Beadles, Wiz, Beachum, Paztor, Bowanko,,,,,)  

Sometimes players don't fit, or just don't work out like you hope. It's not like they weren't trying to build it. 

So yeah, taking 3-5 years to get this thing right is fine by me. Look at what it has resulted in. 

*BTW - I'm absolutely positive that NFL teams could care less what a fan "accepts" or not. They're going to go on as they see fit.

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