That Browns team will be loaded with talent when they get Darnold and Barkley.  Not to mention the 2 picks at the top of the 2nd

Somehow I picture the Browns ending up with the ultimate running team employing Tyrod Taylor and Lamar Jackson at QB with Saquon Barkley, Carlos Hyde and Duke Johnson at RB. They might even want a good run blocking TE with plenty of experience as a role model for their younger players. 

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What about Rudolph?  Or does he not count?

Sure, Rudolph counts too.

As for Allen ranking dead last, I'm really not surprised. I watched a few of his full games, and despite that strong arm of his, he's just not that impressive at all.

I just remember you not thinking very highly of Rudolph

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He doesn't throw with anticipation on out routes, he doesn't throw with anticipation on MOF routes. His inaccuracy in the short game is consistent. He doesn't feel pressure well which makes every 3rd and long an adventure. He doesn't flow through his reads quick enough to take advantage of windows. He's turnover prone.
And I'm not sure where I said they weren't correctable or coachable. Just that they are inherently limiting for him as a QB.  And then you also said he'd have no problem running an NFL scheme, when all we have seen is him struggling to run a fairly simplistic scheme in college against bad opposition , albeit called "pro style" because he snaps the ball under center occasionally. He's a big projection, more so then the rest of the top guys.  

Which NFL concepts do you see him executing well at the college level?


I'm afraid it's not as easy as that. Again, I didn't say it wasn't correctable, just that it's hard. Correcting footwork will help accuracy but it doesn't suddenly turn an extremely inaccurate QB into an accurate one. Release point, shoulder mechanics, elbow position, along with thousands and thousands of reps will help accuracy a lot too but even then it's not an easy fix at all, sometimes QBs just stay inaccurate. So while footwork is one of the easier fixes, that doesn't mean fixing accuracy is.   


Yeah agee, he's nowhere near ready to start. He's much more risky because of how much you need to fix with him.

You make a lot of fair points.  It's ok that we disagree on what we feel his potential is.  He's the definition of boom/bust and our differing takes reflect that truth.

I'm not sure it's noted enough that he's only got two years under his belt at Wyoming.

To answer your question of NFL concepts he executes well, again - he can make all the throws asked of him in the NFL.  As good or better than any of his peers, and is the most complete in that regard.  That opens the playbook and doesn't force a coordinator to fit him to a system, or alter a system to fit him.  He's not like a Leftwich or other QBs who come from mostly shotgun or other non-standard offenses where you aren't doing NFL play action or not taking snaps from under center, doing standard drops, etc.

I think he's one of three we should really be watching.  If they don't think he can work for us, I'm fine with that.  I'd prefer to sit a guy like Jackson for similar reasons (he can be just as erratic) but offers a more dynamic element that could be taken advantage of by getting him on the field in creative ways.  I could also see us taking Rudolph as well.

The more this draws out this class reminds me a lot of 2011 class (only I don't see a Newton caliber at the top.)  They could all end up disappointing as they've all got their blemishes.  It could be a situation where no matter who we chose, we'll get a guy with an  Andy Dalton ceiling (or perhaps another Bortles) if we take one in the first round.  That may not be bad short term if he's needed as a bridge.  The good thing is, there's no reason to force start whoever we might pick day one.

I just don't think anyone else in this draft that will be taken behind these guys is a potential starter, and nothing more than a career backup.  That's only a value if we draft them as such, with a low pick and low expectations.  I certainly wouldn't expect a low pick to be able to take Blake's job, and heaven help us if that ends up being the case.

Yeah there isn't really much Inbetween with a guy like Allen. Discussing him with people who like him does let you understand the otherside more then though.

It's one thing to have the physical capability to make all of the throws but I'm more so asking what NFL plays and concepts he has shown he can execute at a good enough level in college. Rosen for instance is a master at cutting up defenses in the middle of the field. He's already great at running shallow cross , comeback routes to the outside and snag. So you can look at his mental process and project it. With Allen there is very few if any of these.   

Things do seem to be set up to take a QB in the first but honestly I think I see them going for a pure backup type later on. The Cody Kessler type with limited upside , good accuracy , smart etc etc. Basically another Brandon Allen.

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Somehow I picture the Browns ending up with the ultimate running team employing Tyrod Taylor and Lamar Jackson at QB with Saquon Barkley, Carlos Hyde and Duke Johnson at RB. They might even want a good run blocking TE with plenty of experience as a role model for their younger players. 

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Sure, Rudolph counts too.

As for Allen ranking dead last, I'm really not surprised. I watched a few of his full games, and despite that strong arm of his, he's just not that impressive at all.

I just remember you not thinking very highly of Rudolph

I was initially down on Rudolph when I first saw his tape and pictured him throwing INTs, but after hearing about his exceptional ball placement, his strong enough arm to make any throw, and now his ability to throw under pressure, I've reconsidered. I still have a slight red flag, but knowing he'd have time to develop helps. I definitely like him over Allen. I'm debating Rudolph vs Jackson, but I'll even put him over Jackson unless a team particularly wants a running QB.

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'02

That Browns team will be loaded with talent when they get Darnold and Barkley.  Not to mention the 2 picks at the top of the 2nd

But man....I been saying this for 2 or 3 years on here. They got Garrett, Maybe Barkley, Darnold? Coleman I think.

By the way, I take back my Allen as best QB back. I think he could be. As of right now its Darnold, Mayfield, Allen. But they are to close to call.

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And of course I'm in love with Rosens laser arm.

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People are sleeping on Rudolph. I have him in the same tier as Donald, Rosen, and Mayfield. I as much as I want a interior olineman I'm thinking about putting Rudolph at the top of my bigboard. With as good as our team is I don't think we will get another QB prospect as good as Rudolph is in a while.

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People are sleeping on Rudolph.  I have him in the same tier as Donald, Rosen, and Mayfield.  I as much as I want a interior olineman I'm thinking about putting Rudolph at the top of my bigboard.  With as good as our team is I don't think we will get another QB prospect as good as Rudolph is in a while.

Agreed.

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People are sleeping on Rudolph.  I have him in the same tier as Donald, Rosen, and Mayfield.  I as much as I want a interior olineman I'm thinking about putting Rudolph at the top of my bigboard.  With as good as our team is I don't think we will get another QB prospect as good as Rudolph is in a while.

I can hear it now. "Ruuuuudddddddddoooooooooollllllppppphhhhhhh!!!"

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You make a lot of fair points.  It's ok that we disagree on what we feel his potential is.  He's the definition of boom/bust and our differing takes reflect that truth.

I'm not sure it's noted enough that he's only got two years under his belt at Wyoming.

To answer your question of NFL concepts he executes well, again - he can make all the throws asked of him in the NFL.  As good or better than any of his peers, and is the most complete in that regard.  That opens the playbook and doesn't force a coordinator to fit him to a system, or alter a system to fit him.  He's not like a Leftwich or other QBs who come from mostly shotgun or other non-standard offenses where you aren't doing NFL play action or not taking snaps from under center, doing standard drops, etc.

I think he's one of three we should really be watching.  If they don't think he can work for us, I'm fine with that.  I'd prefer to sit a guy like Jackson for similar reasons (he can be just as erratic) but offers a more dynamic element that could be taken advantage of by getting him on the field in creative ways.  I could also see us taking Rudolph as well.

The more this draws out this class reminds me a lot of 2011 class (only I don't see a Newton caliber at the top.)  They could all end up disappointing as they've all got their blemishes.  It could be a situation where no matter who we chose, we'll get a guy with an  Andy Dalton ceiling (or perhaps another Bortles) if we take one in the first round.  That may not be bad short term if he's needed as a bridge.  The good thing is, there's no reason to force start whoever we might pick day one.

I just don't think anyone else in this draft that will be taken behind these guys is a potential starter, and nothing more than a career backup.  That's only a value if we draft them as such, with a low pick and low expectations.  I certainly wouldn't expect a low pick to be able to take Blake's job, and heaven help us if that ends up being the case.

Yeah there isn't really much Inbetween with a guy like Allen. Discussing him with people who like him does let you understand the otherside more then though.

It's one thing to have the physical capability to make all of the throws but I'm more so asking what NFL plays and concepts he has shown he can execute at a good enough level in college. Rosen for instance is a master at cutting up defenses in the middle of the field. He's already great at running shallow cross , comeback routes to the outside and snag. So you can look at his mental process and project it. With Allen there is very few if any of these.   

Things do seem to be set up to take a QB in the first but honestly I think I see them going for a pure backup type later on. The Cody Kessler type with limited upside , good accuracy , smart etc etc. Basically another Brandon Allen.

It's very possible we do take a backup ceiling QB later if they don't take one at 29 (or trade for an even higher pick.)

If that's the case, I still see us looking to find someone who can honestly push for the job next offseason.  I like Blake.  But I do think there's enough uncertainty there to prepare for replacement.  I don't think drafting a backup later this year to be that solution.  It would only be a temporary solution at backup and no chance or expectation to become a starter (like B Allen, as you suggest.)

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

People are sleeping on Rudolph.  I have him in the same tier as Donald, Rosen, and Mayfield.  I as much as I want a interior olineman I'm thinking about putting Rudolph at the top of my bigboard.  With as good as our team is I don't think we will get another QB prospect as good as Rudolph is in a while.

I could see he or Jackson, or both, there at 29.

I would prefer Rudolph, but I think Jackson has appeal.  I just don't know if Jackson would be appealing to the Jaguars.  Coughlin prefers a prototype, but they may want to incorporate some of what they saw from Watson in Houston.  Depends on whether or not this style of play could be best taken advantage of in our scheme ("fit.")

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...andid.html

High praise for Josh Allen from Jordan Palmer. If he's right, Allen isn't gonna make it out of top 5.

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Yeah there isn't really much Inbetween with a guy like Allen. Discussing him with people who like him does let you understand the otherside more then though.

It's one thing to have the physical capability to make all of the throws but I'm more so asking what NFL plays and concepts he has shown he can execute at a good enough level in college. Rosen for instance is a master at cutting up defenses in the middle of the field. He's already great at running shallow cross , comeback routes to the outside and snag. So you can look at his mental process and project it. With Allen there is very few if any of these.   

Things do seem to be set up to take a QB in the first but honestly I think I see them going for a pure backup type later on. The Cody Kessler type with limited upside , good accuracy , smart etc etc. Basically another Brandon Allen.

It's very possible we do take a backup ceiling QB later if they don't take one at 29 (or trade for an even higher pick.)

If that's the case, I still see us looking to find someone who can honestly push for the job next offseason.  I like Blake.  But I do think there's enough uncertainty there to prepare for replacement.  I don't think drafting a backup later this year to be that solution.  It would only be a temporary solution at backup and no chance or expectation to become a starter (like B Allen, as you suggest.)

I think Rudolph is their plan if they have indeed decided to take a QB early but I'm not sure if they are set on doing all they can to move up and get their guy. 

If Rudolph is hanging around at 20ish will the Jaguars bite the bullet and move up? Our FA moves imply we wanted to have as many starting positions cleared up before the draft but will they really go all out for him? I dunno.

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Here is the list of quarterbacks chosen in the top 100 picks since 2005 despite having a completion rate below 58 percent in their final college season: Andrew Walter (2005), Jake Locker (2011), Christian Hackenberg (2016), Connor Cook (2016) and C.J. Beathard (2017). That's it.

Allen was below 58% and will be a top 100 pick. History is not on his side.

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Here is the list of quarterbacks chosen in the top 100 picks since 2005 despite having a completion rate below 58 percent in their final college season: Andrew Walter (2005), Jake Locker (2011), Christian Hackenberg (2016), Connor Cook (2016) and C.J. Beathard (2017). That's it.

Allen was below 58% and will be a top 100 pick. History is not on his side.

History is never on your side until you make history.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."