She says she is someone who believes in "traditional values" but has no feelings of racism or bigotry. I don't doubt it.

So, people who want traditional values aren't necessarily racist or have racist intentions. Correct?

People who say they want "traditional values" are often thinking of things like less government charity, stronger religious affiliation, less divorce, having more kids, etc.  The problem is, a close study of history shows that (1) we went away from those things for good reasons, because each had major downsides, and (2) those things weren't nearly as strong of traditions as racism, as I already explained, and (3) it was usually economic and technological changes that caused these social changes, not government, so asking government to turn the clock back makes no sense.

So yes, those feelings and opinions are sincere, they just aren't very informed, unless you're the type of person who actually wants to re-institute segregation or roll back women's rights.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I think you are getting dumber as you get older, dude.

Look. America has a pretty defined set of values... well, at least it did until the progressives got here. Stop being gaslighted. Traditional American values are freedom, self-reliance, free market capitalism (not crony capitalism), equality, hard work, strong families, cultural diffusion (now called cultural appropriation by idiots) and personal faith. This has been a staple of the American ideal since the onset of this nation. Are there some VERY backwards people that include racism in there? Yup. But they are mostly in the backwoods of West Virginia and teaching at college campuses.

Were there racists from the time this country was founded? Yes. Were there people working to abolish it from the time this nation was founded? Also YES. You can go back and read texts of prominent men who spoke out against it. Certain Christian sects abolished it immediately. Massachusetts NEVER had slaves under the current Constitution. We fought a war where slavery was the predominant point of disagreement between the warring parties. The Civil Rights movement had tremendous support in the north, as well as pockets of support in the South. I could keep going, but I have [BLEEP] to do.

It is not a traditional American value if it was always a point of contention since this nation was founded. It's ONLY being taught that way by people who want to undermine the American system. You're just too uninformed or principled to tell those people to get bent.

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I think you are getting dumber as you get older, dude.

Look. America has a pretty defined set of values... well, at least it did until the progressives got here. Stop being gaslighted. Traditional American values are freedom, self-reliance, free market capitalism (not crony capitalism), equality, hard work, strong families, cultural diffusion (now called cultural appropriation by idiots) and personal faith. This has been a staple of the American ideal since the onset of this nation. Are there some VERY backwards people that include racism in there? Yup. But they are mostly in the backwoods of West Virginia and teaching at college campuses.

Were there racists from the time this country was founded? Yes. Were there people working to abolish it from the time this nation was founded? Also YES. You can go back and read texts of prominent men who spoke out against it. Certain Christian sects abolished it immediately. Massachusetts NEVER had slaves under the current Constitution. We fought a war where slavery was the predominant point of disagreement between the warring parties. The Civil Rights movement had tremendous support in the north, as well as pockets of support in the South. I could keep going, but I have [BLEEP] to do.

It is not a traditional American value if it was always a point of contention since this nation was founded. It's ONLY being taught that way by people who want to undermine the American system. You're just too uninformed or principled to tell those people to get bent.

There are exceptions that prove the rule.
Most people agree that the shaker communities intentionally and fully integrated the black people that wished to join.  However these societies were also intentionally isolated from mainstream American society.
If you were a white person who wanted to live a life where you always treated black people with complete inclusion and respect, you had to isolate yourself from the endemic racism of other white folks.  Whereas, if you were a white person who wanted to practice a minority religion, or no religion, that was usually fine and you could live in mainstream society that way. Racism was therefore a stronger tradition than most other aspects of culture you could think of.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Gobbledygook

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Let me put this another way...

Every distinct group fought until they didn't, which took hundreds of years. I can't stand the influence progressive educators have had on this historical take. They don't care about race, they care about power.

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Gobbledygook

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Let me put this another way...

Every distinct group fought until they didn't, which took hundreds of years. I can't stand the influence progressive educators have had on this historical take. They don't care about race, they care about power.

You care about power too, or you wouldn't accuse them of it.
I care about truth.
If telling the truth changes who is in power, then maybe we need to change who is in power.
Fortunately for you, these truths about the past are already widely known, and don't seem to have much effect on who gains power now or in the future.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

You don't tell the truth, dummy. You repeat what you hear.

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Still waiting for these REAL historians and economists you're talking about.

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Oh, and of course I care about power. What a nonsensical tangent. I have no problem with people presenting TRUTH as proof of their capabilities to lead. The reason I am pointing it out is because IT'S NOT TRUTH. It's distorted, and it MUST be distorted for them to achieve power. Hence the flaw. Stop dumbing everything down.

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What are we arguing about again? Are you still trying to assert that racism wasn't the main feature of the non-native american culture in Virginia from 1619 to 1959? If so, what had a wider impact on the prosperity and happiness of Virginians, or lack thereof, in those years?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

What are we arguing about again? Are you still trying to assert that racism wasn't the main feature of the non-native american culture in Virginia from 1619 to 1959? If so, what had a wider impact on the prosperity and happiness of Virginians, or lack thereof, in those years?

Don’t play dumb, you know it’s because you want to equate being for traditional values with being a closet racist

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

What are we arguing about again? Are you still trying to assert that racism wasn't the main feature of the non-native american culture in Virginia from 1619 to 1959? If so, what had a wider impact on the prosperity and happiness of Virginians, or lack thereof, in those years?

Even if it was.... is Virginia America? Mental gymnastics.

Who are your REAL economists and historians?

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What are we arguing about again? Are you still trying to assert that racism wasn't the main feature of the non-native american culture in Virginia from 1619 to 1959? If so, what had a wider impact on the prosperity and happiness of Virginians, or lack thereof, in those years?

Even if it was.... is Virginia America? 

Ooh I like this question.  Let's agree that Virginia is the archetype for the South. Then let's say there are two other important regions with different archetypes, the north, and the west.  Let's use MA as the archetype for the North and and OR as the archetype for the west.  
MA and OR were very different from VA because of _______ which makes the traditional values of white people there totally not racist.  Fill in the blank.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Answer mine, then rephrase your question in a way that doesn't make you look completely incoherent, please.

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I think you are getting dumber as you get older, dude.

Look. America has a pretty defined set of values... well, at least it did until the progressives got here. Stop being gaslighted. Traditional American values are freedom, self-reliance, free market capitalism (not crony capitalism), equality, hard work, strong families, cultural diffusion (now called cultural appropriation by idiots) and personal faith. This has been a staple of the American ideal since the onset of this nation. Are there some VERY backwards people that include racism in there? Yup. But they are mostly in the backwoods of West Virginia and teaching at college campuses.

Were there racists from the time this country was founded? Yes. Were there people working to abolish it from the time this nation was founded? Also YES. You can go back and read texts of prominent men who spoke out against it. Certain Christian sects abolished it immediately. Massachusetts NEVER had slaves under the current Constitution. We fought a war where slavery was the predominant point of disagreement between the warring parties. The Civil Rights movement had tremendous support in the north, as well as pockets of support in the South. I could keep going, but I have [BLEEP] to do.

It is not a traditional American value if it was always a point of contention since this nation was founded. It's ONLY being taught that way by people who want to undermine the American system. You're just too uninformed or principled to tell those people to get bent.

There are exceptions that prove the rule.
Most people agree that the shaker communities intentionally and fully integrated the black people that wished to join.  However these societies were also intentionally isolated from mainstream American society.
If you were a white person who wanted to live a life where you always treated black people with complete inclusion and respect, you had to isolate yourself from the endemic racism of other white folks.  Whereas, if you were a white person who wanted to practice a minority religion, or no religion, that was usually fine and you could live in mainstream society that way.  Racism was therefore a stronger tradition than most other aspects of culture you could think of.

Again showing more about you than anyone else.  You have latched on to the progressive ideal that all whites want to put brown people under their control and treat them as second class humans.  Get out of your office, turn off MSNBC, go out into the actual world and realize every race, creed and religion has a lot more in common than they do differences.  The people that I know and hang out with whether white, black, brown, yellow or red do not care about the color of our skins, our religions nor where we came from but about the content of our character.  If only you over educated nincompoops would realize this is where the majority of all people live and quit subjecting us to your biases we be in a much better place.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

What are we arguing about again? Are you still trying to assert that racism wasn't the main feature of the non-native american culture in Virginia from 1619 to 1959? If so, what had a wider impact on the prosperity and happiness of Virginians, or lack thereof, in those years?

Don’t play dumb, you know it’s because you want to equate being for traditional values with being a closet racist

Well let's be honest, traditional values does equate to being racist and sexist.

Traditional value are based on a traditional household where the woman's role was to spread her legs and get pregnant and then rear the children while the man earned the household money. It's also about communities of the same.  White people only associate with white people and black people do the same.  Whites go to church with whites and blacks go to church with church with blacks and never the twain shall meet.  Only Christian values are taught at schools. Mohammad and Allah - that's some foreign Arab thing - yuk. Buddhism - isn't that some cute fat guy who's belly we rub for luck.

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R.I.P. Stroudcrowd1

There are exceptions that prove the rule.
Most people agree that the shaker communities intentionally and fully integrated the black people that wished to join.  However these societies were also intentionally isolated from mainstream American society.
If you were a white person who wanted to live a life where you always treated black people with complete inclusion and respect, you had to isolate yourself from the endemic racism of other white folks.  Whereas, if you were a white person who wanted to practice a minority religion, or no religion, that was usually fine and you could live in mainstream society that way.  Racism was therefore a stronger tradition than most other aspects of culture you could think of.

Again showing more about you than anyone else.  You have latched on to the progressive ideal that all whites want to put brown people under their control and treat them as second class humans.  Get out of your office, turn off MSNBC, go out into the actual world and realize every race, creed and religion has a lot more in common than they do differences.  The people that I know and hang out with whether white, black, brown, yellow or red do not care about the color of our skins, our religions nor where we came from but about the content of our character.  If only you over educated nincompoops would realize this is where the majority of all people live and quit subjecting us to your biases we be in a much better place.

My life and experiences are not that different from yours.
But the issue here is tradition, the recent past, that most of us did not live through but our parents and grandparents did live through.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Don’t play dumb, you know it’s because you want to equate being for traditional values with being a closet racist

Well let's be honest, traditional values does equate to being racist and sexist.

Traditional value are based on a traditional household where the woman's role was to spread her legs and get pregnant and then rear the children while the man earned the household money. It's also about communities of the same.  White people only associate with white people and black people do the same.  Whites go to church with whites and blacks go to church with church with blacks and never the twain shall meet.  Only Christian values are taught at schools.  Mohammad and Allah - that's some foreign Arab thing - yuk.  Buddhism - isn't that some cute fat guy who's belly we rub for luck.

[BLEEP] are talking about, traditional values really depends on who and what’s traditions your talking about. Respect, love for country and for your fellow Americans. To be an American was special, we were different in so many ways, but the one thing we agreed on was our love for this country. 

Those days are gone, forever. -You know traditional values, not that ugly [BLEEP] your talking about..

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

Don’t play dumb, you know it’s because you want to equate being for traditional values with being a closet racist

Well let's be honest, traditional values does equate to being racist and sexist.

Traditional value are based on a traditional household where the woman's role was to spread her legs and get pregnant and then rear the children while the man earned the household money. It's also about communities of the same.  White people only associate with white people and black people do the same.  Whites go to church with whites and blacks go to church with church with blacks and never the twain shall meet.  Only Christian values are taught at schools.  Mohammad and Allah - that's some foreign Arab thing - yuk.  Buddhism - isn't that some cute fat guy who's belly we rub for luck.

Who taught you this nonsense? It's 2023 for crying out loud. Only the very strict religious groups or very old folks believe that crap and there are fewer of those than you think because that generation is dying off. 

By your account of what traditional values are I would most definitely count myself out of that group. I guess it's the old school feminist in me. Or the critical thinker. Or the part of me that doesn't like being put in a box of, "because you believe _____, then you must be ______." 

What a load of BS. I tend more toward traditional values but I'm not that woman who ever thought I had to get married to be happy and I certainly never wanted kids and never thought I needed a man to take care of me. I don't care what color anyone is, I talk to everyone just the same. I don't remember the last time a Christian value was taught in school, but it's been a long time since I was in a classroom. 

Live and let live is my thing. Do I have an opinion on certain issues? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean I hate anyone. It just means I have an opinion and sometimes it's a strong opinion. I'm a practical minded person, not one driven by feelings.

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No, but history shows that white people have done the most bad things, especially things against other races.

So says your college professors right? You should catch up on history, you might actually learn something. Good grief this country (world) is [BLEEP]..

European colonization is estimated to have killed more than 50 million people across the Americas and the British colonisation of India was also estimated to kill more than 50 million Indians.  None of those figures include deaths from white colonization of Africa and Australia - the Belgians were brtual in the Congo.

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R.I.P. Stroudcrowd1

So says your college professors right? You should catch up on history, you might actually learn something. Good grief this country (world) is [BLEEP]..

European colonization is estimated to have killed more than 50 million people across the Americas and the British colonisation of India was also estimated to kill more than 50 million Indians.  None of those figures include deaths from white colonization of Africa and Australia - the Belgians were brtual in the Congo.

Those facts are roughly true, but, does this mean whites did "the most"?
A similar number of Chinese were killed by Mao.  A smaller but still amazingly high number of Chinese were killed by the Japanese during the invasion of Manchuria and WWII.  Vietnam and Cambodia are smaller countries, but the things they did to themselves from 1954 to 1978 are staggering, proportionally speaking.  Yes, the US and French helped, but most of the evil was Asian on Asian violence. And as brutal as the Belgians were to the peoples of Congo/Zaire/Rwanda/Burundi, can we really blame the Belgians for the genocide in Rwanda?  History is a very sad place, and the human heart is a very dark place.  No one has a monopoly on atrocity, nor does anyone have an immunity to it.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

European colonization is estimated to have killed more than 50 million people across the Americas and the British colonisation of India was also estimated to kill more than 50 million Indians.  None of those figures include deaths from white colonization of Africa and Australia - the Belgians were brtual in the Congo.

Those facts are roughly true, but, does this mean whites did "the most"?
A similar number of Chinese were killed by Mao.  A smaller but still amazingly high number of Chinese were killed by the Japanese during the invasion of Manchuria and WWII.  Vietnam and Cambodia are smaller countries, but the things they did to themselves from 1954 to 1978 are staggering, proportionally speaking.  Yes, the US and French helped, but most of the evil was Asian on Asian violence. And as brutal as the Belgians were to the peoples of Congo/Zaire/Rwanda/Burundi, can we really blame the Belgians for the genocide in Rwanda?  History is a very sad place, and the human heart is a very dark place.  No one has a monopoly on atrocity, nor does anyone have an immunity to it.

Yeah, in terms of killing another race, whites are miles ahead.

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R.I.P. Stroudcrowd1