Is this not government meddling in religion or pushing private business into serving said religion by offering different rules?  What's next?  Perhaps grocery stores should be "sharia complainant" and not offer the sale of bacon or ham because it "offends" those that supposedly practice sharia law.

 

Look at it this way.  Hard core Mormon groups are against alcohol or tobacco use.  Should the government be pushing for the ban of the sale of such products in those communities based solely on their religious beliefs?  Should there be a push for "Mormon complainant" convenience stores in certain areas?

 

You're trying to hard to make it a slope, and a slippery one, at that. This has nothing to do with anyone being offended and as a result there being potential for a ban of some sort. The mayor represents everyone in his city, including 30,000 Muslims. Why would he not endorse any effort that helps them buy homes and, oh by the way, open up a new customer base for local lenders, home builders and real estate brokers?

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

You're trying to hard to make it a slope, and a slippery one, at that. This has nothing to do with anyone being offended and as a result there being potential for a ban of some sort. The mayor represents everyone in his city, including 30,000 Muslims. Why would he not endorse any effort that helps them buy homes and, oh by the way, open up a new customer base for local lenders, home builders and real estate brokers?

 

Endorse an effort based on what?  Open up a new customer base for local lenders, home builders and real estate brokers based on what?

 

By the way, some of my thoughts included situations that might be bad for business as well as the potential consumer.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Very good point, but let me add a couple of other thoughts regarding this.


1. How does a financial institution determine creditworthiness when considering someone for a loan? In the case of a mortgage, income, debt and credit history is scrutinized. How does someone build a credit history if they don't pay interest?


2. Assume hypothetically that the current interest rate for a home loan is 8% for someone with "good" credit. Say after 5 years the current interest rate drops to 4%. A traditional borrower could refinance at the lower rate. How would a "sharia complaint" refinancing be calculated?

My thoughts while waiting for a flight in Dallas (i.e., brief and disorganized):


1. I would anticipate that their credit be checked before extending the loan offer, and their interest rate figured accordingly. If they have no credit, I would hope (though I know there will be those who push to not make this the case) that the lender would have the right to turn the applicant away. Try and apply for a conventional loan with no credit and see how far you get in the process. Hint: they won't even take your application fee.


As to how the applicants build credit history, that's no one's problem but their own to figure out.


2. There should not be an opportunity to refinance a Sharia loan. You can play with interest all you want, but buying down and refunding principal like that leaves things way too open to fraud. I'm sure someone will complain and banks will be forced to figure out how to do it, but imo, you can only expect someone to go so far to cater to the desires of another person. My sister is a vegan, but if we're going out for dinner and I want a damn burger, we're going somewhere that I can get a damn burger and she can have a salad. She's the one with the special preferences, not me, and there's only so far that I should reasonably be expected to go to accommodate her. The same principle applies here. Want Sharia loans? Fine. Want to rewrite the rules of banking to make those loans favor one group of buyers over another? No. Go away.

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Endorse an effort based on what?  Open up a new customer base for local lenders, home builders and real estate brokers based on what?

 

By the way, some of my thoughts included situations that might be bad for business as well as the potential consumer.

 

Based on personal choice. No business is being forced into doing anything, the mayor is merely promoting a proposal by a housing commission to encourage lenders to structure loans so Muslims who hold certain beliefs can now borrow money without violating said beliefs. There is no endorsement of any belief, it is just creating an opportunity.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Based on personal choice. No business is being forced into doing anything, the mayor is merely promoting a proposal by a housing commission to encourage lenders to structure loans so Muslims who hold certain beliefs can now borrow money without violating said beliefs. There is no endorsement of any belief, it is just creating an opportunity.

 

No, it's not based on "personal choice" it's based on a religious belief.  You have government (the Mayor) trying to influence private business to alter their business practices not based on a "personal belief", it's based on religious preference.  If I identify myself as Christian or Hindu, would I be able to go to a lender and say that I believe in "sharia law" and get a loan?  After all, I'm not a Muslim, but I happen to hold a "certain belief" and it's my "personal choice".

 

By the way, before you shut this thread down, we are not discussing religion itself.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

My thoughts while waiting for a flight in Dallas (i.e., brief and disorganized):


1. I would anticipate that their credit be checked before extending the loan offer, and their interest rate figured accordingly. If they have no credit, I would hope (though I know there will be those who push to not make this the case) that the lender would have the right to turn the applicant away. Try and apply for a conventional loan with no credit and see how far you get in the process. Hint: they won't even take your application fee.


As to how the applicants build credit history, that's no one's problem but their own to figure out.


2. There should not be an opportunity to refinance a Sharia loan. You can play with interest all you want, but buying down and refunding principal like that leaves things way too open to fraud. I'm sure someone will complain and banks will be forced to figure out how to do it, but imo, you can only expect someone to go so far to cater to the desires of another person. My sister is a vegan, but if we're going out for dinner and I want a damn burger, we're going somewhere that I can get a damn burger and she can have a salad. She's the one with the special preferences, not me, and there's only so far that I should reasonably be expected to go to accommodate her. The same principle applies here. Want Sharia loans? Fine. Want to rewrite the rules of banking to make those loans favor one group of buyers over another? No. Go away.

 

1.  A very good answer to my earlier point.  However, what's next if they are turned away?

 

2.  You get my point exactly.

 

Have a good and safe flight. 

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

1. A very good answer to my earlier point. However, what's next if they are turned away?


Have a good and safe flight.

1. Someone cries about being oppressed, the acronym of your choice sues on behalf of the people who've been told that their beliefs do not entitle them to force banks to write loans that will default in six months, it ends up in court, banks are forced by federal court injunctions to extend loans to people that they otherwise wouldn't, sharia loans written to no-credit individuals have an astronomical foreclosure rate but it's ok because we're being "inclusive", and five years down the line the Supreme Court does its thing. The norm, pretty much.


Also, thanks!

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No, it's not based on "personal choice" it's based on a religious belief.  You have government (the Mayor) trying to influence private business to alter their business practices not based on a "personal belief", it's based on religious preference.  If I identify myself as Christian or Hindu, would I be able to go to a lender and say that I believe in "sharia law" and get a loan?  After all, I'm not a Muslim, but I happen to hold a "certain belief" and it's my "personal choice".

 

By the way, before you shut this thread down, we are not discussing religion itself.

 

What is a religious belief or preference, if not a personal choice? I'm sure there will be attempts to defraud, but from posts here it appears doing so would not be a rational choice unless it dovetails with one's beliefs.

 

Remember, this will benefit business in general. Nobody is being forced to do anything. You may be the first conservative I've encountered not in favor of an action that benefits businesses.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

What is a religious belief or preference, if not a personal choice? I'm sure there will be attempts to defraud, but from posts here it appears doing so would not be a rational choice unless it dovetails with one's beliefs.

 

Remember, this will benefit business in general. Nobody is being forced to do anything. You may be the first conservative I've encountered not in favor of an action that benefits businesses.

 

Hey, if he wants to be offended, he's going to be offended. I love the way people get their logic all twisted just to show disdain for Muslims. First it's private entities should be allowed to do anything they want - until it's something that they don't like. Then they are caving in! To whom it's never made clear. And by whom is also a mystery. But they shouldn't be doing it!

 

And we all know that by Publix having a great number of kosher products in their Mandarin stores they are caving in to the Jews and we'll all be made to follow Rabinic Law any day now. 

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

And we all know that by Publix having a great number of kosher products in their Mandarin stores they are caving in to the Jews and we'll all be made to follow Rabinic Law any day now. 

 

Oh but I can buy any product there I want, kosher or not! What will be the requirements for these special loans, will I have to swear fealty to Allah and his prophet Muhammad at closing?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Oh but I can buy any product there I want, kosher or not! What will be the requirements for these special loans, will I have to swear fealty to Allah and his prophet Muhammad at closing?

 

Sure, if you want to be a jerk you could suggest it.

 

See how easy it is to be childish and cringe-worthy-stupid when it has to do with Islam? You can help develop the American image of how someone deals with a religion that is unknown to them - or that they are too lazy to learn.

 

And it's not really the religion is it? It's just a general fear of the unknown. They say education helps conquer fear, but I don't know. It's going to take a long time.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

FTFY.

Typical deflection. Why do you dislike American society so much?

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Very good point, but let me add a couple of other thoughts regarding this.


1. How does a financial institution determine creditworthiness when considering someone for a loan? In the case of a mortgage, income, debt and credit history is scrutinized. How does someone build a credit history if they don't pay interest?


2. Assume hypothetically that the current interest rate for a home loan is 8% for someone with "good" credit. Say after 5 years the current interest rate drops to 4%. A traditional borrower could refinance at the lower rate. How would a "sharia complaint" refinancing be calculated?


The other thing(s) to consider are in the opening few paragraphs of the article that the OP linked to. From the article.



Is this not government meddling in religion or pushing private business into serving said religion by offering different rules? What's next? Perhaps grocery stores should be "sharia complainant" and not offer the sale of bacon or ham because it "offends" those that supposedly practice sharia law.


Look at it this way. Hard core Mormon groups are against alcohol or tobacco use. Should the government be pushing for the ban of the sale of such products in those communities based solely on their religious beliefs? Should there be a push for "Mormon complainant" convenience stores in certain areas?

That's not the same thing. Something similar would be trying to push for more NA beer.

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What is a religious belief or preference, if not a personal choice? I'm sure there will be attempts to defraud, but from posts here it appears doing so would not be a rational choice unless it dovetails with one's beliefs.

 

Remember, this will benefit business in general. Nobody is being forced to do anything. You may be the first conservative I've encountered not in favor of an action that benefits businesses.

 

Based on what I pointed out before regarding credit history, how can this benefit business?  How would an interest rate get calculated that is fair to both business and those that take traditional loans?  How does a Christian, a Jew or an Atheist qualify for a "sharia complaint" loan?

 

 

Hey, if he wants to be offended, he's going to be offended. I love the way people get their logic all twisted just to show disdain for Muslims. First it's private entities should be allowed to do anything they want - until it's something that they don't like. Then they are caving in! To whom it's never made clear. And by whom is also a mystery. But they shouldn't be doing it!

 

And we all know that by Publix having a great number of kosher products in their Mandarin stores they are caving in to the Jews and we'll all be made to follow Rabinic Law any day now. 

 

I never said anything about being offended, so please quit the spin and don't put words into my mouth.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Sure, if you want to be a jerk you could suggest it.

 

See how easy it is to be childish and cringe-worthy-stupid when it has to do with Islam? You can help develop the American image of how someone deals with a religion that is unknown to them - or that they are too lazy to learn.

 

And it's not really the religion is it? It's just a general fear of the unknown. They say education helps conquer fear, but I don't know. It's going to take a long time.

 

And I'm not "Suggesting" it, I'm questioning if a new suite of products available in the market, a suite that radically alters the paradigm within which the vast majority of Americans purchase their homes, offered to a segment of the population based on their religious beliefs, will be available to non-practitioners of the religion.

 

What I get is the typical liberal response of "you're dumb", "you're scared", and "shut up."

 

And you're right, Islam has a nearly 1,500 year history of violence and aggression. It's going to take a LONG time for them to overcome it, especially since they haven't started trying yet.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Typical deflection. Why do you dislike American society so much?

 

I love American society. I hate the encroaching tyranny of the state that will destroy it. 

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

And I'm not "Suggesting" it, I'm questioning if a new suite of products available in the market, a suite that radically alters the paradigm within which the vast majority of Americans purchase their homes, offered to a segment of the population based on their religious beliefs, will be available to non-practitioners of the religion.

 

 

Since it appears, as Eric pointed out, to be such a good deal for the lenders, I imagine the answer to your question will be yes.

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Willful ignorance runs deep in you my son. It creepd up whenever reality contradicts your world view!

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Based on what I pointed out before regarding credit history, how can this benefit business?  How would an interest rate get calculated that is fair to both business and those that take traditional loans?  How does a Christian, a Jew or an Atheist qualify for a "sharia complaint" loan?

 

It benefits business by putting tens of thousands of new customers in the market for loans and housing.

 

You ask a good question. I see no reason why anyone should be prevented from applying for either type of loan, just like kosher food is available to all.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

It benefits business by putting tens of thousands of new customers in the market for loans and housing.

 

You ask a good question. I see no reason why anyone should be prevented from applying for either type of loan, just like kosher food is available to all.

And when, say, Wells Fargo doesn't want to offer those loans in the future, how long until the lawsuit?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato