I think Caldwell has until Bortles 4th season, at least. And I think, barring something ridiculously unpleasant, Bortles will be given his full rookie contract to keep the job and progress as the starter.

 

Blaine Gabbert only got 2 seasons and 3 games, so I'm not sure that's possible if Bortles doesn't show signs of improvement, but maybe that's covered by "ridiculously unpleasant."  My thought is by the end of the second season, the jags will know if he's on the right track or not.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

Blaine Gabbert only got 2 seasons and 3 games, so I'm not sure that's possible if Bortles doesn't show signs of improvement, but maybe that's covered by "ridiculously unpleasant."  My thought is by the end of the second season, the jags will know if he's on the right track or not.

Gabbert was ridiculously unpleasant to watch. I'd say in Bortles 13.5 games he has already showed more "promise".

Granted a long way to go... different GM, different situation. 

Smith had to bridge two very bad coaches and he did so with questionable draft and free agency moves. 

Caldwell has seem more calculated. 

 

Khan also is a different owner than Mr. Weaver was. I think he understands the long process and won't be quick to make any changes. I think this buys Caldwell time and I think Caldwell understands patience will be needed.

 

 

That all being said, I think if by the end of the season Caldwell thinks Bortles isn't progressing well he'll address it, whether it be talking with Gus about making some changes or going after a veteran presence in free agency (or trade) until he can draft a new one.

 

IMO no one's job is going to be in question until midway the 2016 season. At that point, if we're a talented team losing games, Gus will be on the hot seat, if we look like a bunch of bad picks and bad pick ups, Caldwells seat will be hot. If Bortles sucks and we win some games despite it he could see only 3 seasons, I suppose.

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Blaine Gabbert only got 2 seasons and 3 games, so I'm not sure that's possible if Bortles doesn't show signs of improvement, but maybe that's covered by "ridiculously unpleasant." My thought is by the end of the second season, the jags will know if he's on the right track or not.

First fault in that logic is comparing Gabbert and Bortles.


That is all.

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Blaine Gabbert only got 2 seasons and 3 games, so I'm not sure that's possible if Bortles doesn't show signs of improvement, but maybe that's covered by "ridiculously unpleasant."  My thought is by the end of the second season, the jags will know if he's on the right track or not.

Gabbert never put the kind of work in that we're seeing from Bortles.  He also never stepped up and assumed the role of leader in the locker room or on the field.  All indications are that Bortles has done everything you want to see your young QB doing to improve his situation.  In addition, the front office has been working to build the talent around him to assure he has every weapon necessary to succeed.  I don't think the previous front office ever really did the same for Gabbert.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Peyton Manning on the Jaguars, " A london fan came up to me asking about the Jacksonville Jaguars and how good I think Blaine Bortles will be" - basically joined the names which I think might have been on purpose....


I do think that Blake Bortles will far surpass Blaine Gabbert on the field in performance as we saw from his rookie season even with the worst Oline in Jaguars history & all rookie WRs (besides Cecil)

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I bet you, Manning simply mixed the names up.  He doesn't think of some inferior Jags club to that level to take subtle jabs at them.  

 

Even I have to think when I say our QB names; Garrard, Gabbert, Blaine, Blake...

 

Not so easy baby

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

Gus/Caldwell aren't going anywhere no time soon. Khan loves those guys.

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-Pre-Med student

-Future Physician, hoping to specialize in Emergency Medicine or Hematology

-Jags fan since May 24, 1996

 

Khan loves making money! He's even stated that is his motivation. Winning sells tickets.

 

Regards.........................the Chiefjag

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Khan loves making money! He's even stated that is his motivation. Winning sells tickets.

 

Regards.........................the Chiefjag

Exactly.  All of the yeah buts will only get you so far.

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Of the three, only Bradley's is remotely on the line.

 

Like it or not, Fowler's injury buys Caldwell more time.  And Bortles?  It would be a joke to turn on him so soon no matter what happens.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

I really don't see any jobs on the line this season unless the team just has a complete 'meltdown' and goes 2-14 or something close to that. I can't see that happening... but what could happen is the team going something closer to 6-10 to 8-8, which would represent a significantly better performance than we've seen from the Jags in a while. An end of season record along these lines would represent 'validation' for Gus and prevent him from even having a 'warm chair' much less the hot seat. A middle of the pack performance is about all I can realistically hope for out of the Jags this season. Next season, the expectation will be higher.

 

On the flip side, a 'middle of the pack' performance (if we're fortunate enough to achieve it) has it's own down side; namely, it will take us out of getting a top ten draft pick. We've been (unhappily, I might add) recipients of top ten draft picks for some years now. Unfortunately, we've also had a long and storied run of 'bad luck' with many (not all) of our high draft picks. Most recently with Fowler, then Blackmon, Joeckel (jury is still out on him), Gabbert... just to name a few. It should be obvious that if your team is the recipient of such high picks then those picks need to develop into core players for the team. That just hasn't been the Jags fortune, however.

 

So if we turn in a modest middle of the pack type season record like 6-10 this year, it'll validate Gus as a head coach but take away our top ten pick. Given the job that Dave has been doing drafting quality players, I find the specter of not getting a top ten pick not quite so daunting as I might have prior to Dave being here. So all we need now is for the team to actually go out on the field and put up some W's for a change. Vegas already has us at 5.5 wins, so with some good luck for a change, maybe we can do a little better than that even.

 

We'll see.

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I y'ams who I y'ams and thats all I y'ams...

Of the three, only Bradley's is remotely on the line.


Like it or not, Fowler's injury buys Caldwell more time. And Bortles? It would be a joke to turn on him so soon no matter what happens.

^ ^ ^ this ^ ^ ^


Only way anyone is gone is if we have another horrible season then Bradley may be gone. But it's going to have to be as bad as the last two years. I don't see any magic win total that will determine anything. I don't see it happening. We'll see.

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If the Jaguars have a bad enough season and it is due to Bortles playing badly, combined with poor coaching, and lack of talent either in the draft or free agency then I can see the argument that the three would lose their jobs but I dont see that happening.  In my opinion out of the three the person that should be most worried is Head Coach Gus Bradley, because Head Coaches lose their jobs quiet often for losing seasons and he's already had two under .500 a third would most likely seal the deal.  He has the fact that the media, the players, and the fans still support him despite his record (a very rare situation), and I too am pulling for him.  He (Gus) is a likeable guy and appears to be a good coach despite the record (players continue to work hard late in the games even in blowouts when the season was obviously already lost).  The head coach and GM had the excuse of rebuilding the team due to lack of talent but in year 3 even with Fowler's injury if the team goes with only 3 wins again I dont see the media supporting them as they once had.

I also think that despite fowlers injury the team still has good odds of going .500 or higher if Thomas continues to play as good as he did in Denver, if Lewis improves off of last season, if Bortles plays the way he did in preseason last year behind a much better oline (in talent & coaching) which will also help the rookie RB whom more pressure is put upon him with Fowlers injury.  The key to success will be the rookie WR core now without cecil & without Cooper being drafted they have to prove that they can rise to the occasion.

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Khan loves making money! He's even stated that is his motivation. Winning sells tickets.

 

Regards.........................the Chiefjag

there it is.... the bottom line.

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I y'ams who I y'ams and thats all I y'ams...

I'd say if any jobs were at risk it was joeckel cyprien then bradley


joeckel needs to show serious improvement and it sounds Like a healthy off-season is really helping so I have high hopes there


Cyprien needs to be more consistent. His good moments are forgotten because of mis tackles and blown coverages. He needs to show more this year and hopefully an upgrade on Josh Evans will us play more 1 high and let him play in the box more


At the end of the day if we have another 3-4 wins season bradley should be fired. 3 seasons like that is stagnation and there is no doubt our roster is the most talented it's been in years. I expect 8-8 but think he needs 6 or 7 to keep his job. I think that's achievable and have faith he can do it

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why has someone always got to be on "the hot seat?"

The whole team, stadium and outlook of the Jaguars has changed dramatically since Khan took over ownership.

Think back where we were.....and where we are now.

 

This management group from the president, the GM and the coach...isn't going anywhere soon.

enjoy 2015 and the improvements that that start to happen.

By 2016.....the train will be full steam.

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Because Jaguars is our mantra 

The big thing they have to is avoiding the blowout losses.  There were a few games last year it was over by halftime.

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The answer to the opening question is "No, last year's roster was NOT more talented than the one JDR had for most of his career."

 

JDR coached here from 2003-2011.

 

Let's do a position by position comparison

 

QB:  JDR had BL, DG most of his career here.  Bradley had Gabbert, Henne, and a rookie BB.-Edge: JDR

RB:  JDR had FT still in his prime last 5 years and MJDs entire prime career.  Bradley had MJD's last year here, Gerhart, and DRob.  Edge:  JDR

WR:  JDR had Jimmy Smith towards the end, MJ, RW, Wilford:  Bradley had Blackmon for maybe a grand total of half a season, the current young guys.  Edge: JDR.

TE:  JDR had Brady, Wrighster, and ML during his prime and best ever season.  Gus?  ML the past two years, Clay Harbor, and not much else.  Edge:  JDR.

 

OL:  JDR had Vince Manuwai, Chris Naoele, and Brad Meester in their primes.  Also had Mo Williams at RT.  Gus had Brad Meester at the very end, Luke Bowanko, a rookie Linder, Luke Joeckel, and an assortment of disasters at RT.  Edge:  JDR

 

DL:  JDR had Stroud and Henderson at their peaks, Terrance Knighton, Reggie Hayward, Rob Meier, Bobby McCray when he had a ten sack season.  Gus had Miller, Marks, Ryan Davis, Chris Smith, Chris Clemons, Red Bryant one year.  Edge:  JDR

 

LB:  JDR had Mike Peterson, Rookie and in his prime Daryl Smith, and several others.  Gus had Poz, Telvin Smith one year to date, Geno Hayes.  This is the closest matchup thus far, but I'd still give the edge to JDR.

 

DB:  JDR had Rashean Mathis in his prime, DD, Deon Grant, Brian Williams among others at RCB.  Gus had Dwayne Gratz, Cyp, Colvin for half a year, McCray.  Edge;  JDR and it isn't even close.

 

The players you credit JDR for having were on teams JDR took us to the playoffs with.  If you cite those players, then give credit to JDR for the playoff appearances.

 

 

How about JDR's last 3 years here, the 2009/2010/2011 seasons which were his worst years as the Jags HC?  He had "lost the team" as some say.  He had Gene Smith doing his drafting.  He had:

 

no Fred Taylor

no Jimmie Smith

no Mike Peterson

no Donovin Darius

no Marcus Stroud

no Kyle Brady

no Chris Naeole

an injured Rashean Mathis that was only able to play half of the time

a banged-up Vince Manuwai

a banged up John Henderson (and only for one year, 2009)

...and a rotational qb trio of Garrard, McCown, and Gabbert.

 

He had MJD and Daryl Smith, Marcedes Lewis, Brad Meester (yawn) and that's about it.  And he went 18-25 during that time.  Gus has gone 7-25 with a team that would "run through walls" for him that was assembled by a much-better GM in Caldwell.

 

JDR gets the edge for having 2 years of "old" Jimmy Smith, Matt Jones, Reggie Williams, and Ernest Wilford over the "current young guys" that Gus has?  Discarding your obvious bias for a moment, you will see that JDR got more out of the team than the talent dictated he should have.  Gus has not done that.  Reason?  Gus is not a good HC, but JDR was not too bad.

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"We believe in victory!"   - Gus Bradley
"I don't want to believe.  I want to know."   - Carl Sagan

Kodiak,

 

Let me clarify a few things (again with apologies for not cutting and pasting).

 

1.  I have never taken any credit away from JDR for his playoff appearances.  Despite the way his stint here ended, I have always viewed him favorably overall, dating back to his days at USC and Dallas.

 

2.  Yes, he had absolutely horrid teams to close out his Jaguars career.  I never represented otherwise.  But that doesn't change the fact the roster he inherited was superior to the one Bradley inherited, nor does it change the fact that for the majority of his Jaguars career, his roster was superior to the one Bradley inherited.

 

3.  Obvious bias?  For or against whom?  My only bias for the purpose of this discussion is for superior Jaguars rosters and against inferior Jaguars rosters.  I wasn't making a statement regarding the coaches...only on the comparative states of the roster when they arrived.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

The players you credit JDR for having were on teams JDR took us to the playoffs with.  If you cite those players, then give credit to JDR for the playoff appearances.

 

 

How about JDR's last 3 years here, the 2009/2010/2011 seasons which were his worst years as the Jags HC?  He had "lost the team" as some say.  He had Gene Smith doing his drafting.  He had:

 

no Fred Taylor

no Jimmie Smith

no Mike Peterson

no Donovin Darius

no Marcus Stroud

no Kyle Brady

no Chris Naeole

an injured Rashean Mathis that was only able to play half of the time

a banged-up Vince Manuwai

a banged up John Henderson (and only for one year, 2009)

...and a rotational qb trio of Garrard, McCown, and Gabbert.

 

He had MJD and Daryl Smith, Marcedes Lewis, Brad Meester (yawn) and that's about it.  And he went 18-25 during that time.  Gus has gone 7-25 with a team that would "run through walls" for him that was assembled by a much-better GM in Caldwell.

 

JDR gets the edge for having 2 years of "old" Jimmy Smith, Matt Jones, Reggie Williams, and Ernest Wilford over the "current young guys" that Gus has?  Discarding your obvious bias for a moment, you will see that JDR got more out of the team than the talent dictated he should have.  Gus has not done that.  Reason?  Gus is not a good HC, but JDR was not too bad.

 

Thank you, Kodiak.  I cannot break it down like you.  In my view, since we go by results in this league, it's blasphemous to even put Bradley and JDR in one sentence, UNTIL Bradley drastically starts upping his win totals.  Bradley, Murlakey...now we are talking.  For now, history says, in his worst season as head coach, JDR had a better record than Bradley's best (including the Tucker wins, season wise)

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.