What makes you think "his upside is through the roof, higher than any other QB prospect?"   What is the evidence of that?

The evidence of that? Heisman trophy winning season wasn't even as good as last season, he has a great arm, and he is easily the most elusive QB in the draft. 

He's more physically gifted than any other QB, and he has a pretty impressive college resume. 

That would be the evidence...

Physically gifted and elusive, I'll give you, but great arm? No way!

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He's definitely a project but his upside is through the roof, higher than any other QB prospect.

It'll take a year or two before he's ready but a team like Jacksonville is primed for it.

He could go anywhere from early/mid 1 to probably mid round 2, so if he did get selected at 29, depending on how the jags have him rated, would likely be very good value.

What makes you think "his upside is through the roof, higher than any other QB prospect?"   What is the evidence of that?

I haven't seen evidence that any of the QBs at the top of this draft are anything special.

Rosen and Darnold could easily be Trubisky and Tannehill.

A lot of people, including Vick himself, see explosiveness of Michael Vick in his game.  That would be higher than Trubisky and Tannehill level production.

It's all projection.  No one knows how any of these QBs will turn out.  Having/not having the highest ceiling are equal arguments.  Why you believe so is what separates the arguments.  I can completely understand why some would feel he has higher upside.

I think Mayfield has higher upside than Rosen and Darnold as well, though his height and maturity are in question.  All the top QBs have warts in this draft.

Allen's ceiling is extremely difficult to gauge.  Is he Locker?  Is he Cutler?  Could he become a thrower like Kelly or Elway?  Biggest risk/reward, as his ceiling could also be his current floor.  His arm alone is what's likely to cause someone to take him early in spite of his completion percentage.


Rudolph I see as Garappolo potential ceilling and probably needs to have time to groom as he did.  He may be one of the safer picks, particularly for teams not looking for an immediate starter.

Every year we overhype and oversell the QBs (all of them - top to bottom,) particularly if our team needs one.  This year is no different.

In our case, I've seen a lot of folks falling too much in love with the lower QBs in this draft, who I don't think will have an easy road to simply become a backup in the league.  I could be completely wrong, but experience and history has taught me not to prop up those kinds of guys and be especially wary of selling yourself a bad prospect just because you feel you need one or desire the club to take one.  We can't manufacture candidates we want if they aren't really there.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Can poor accuracy be significantly changed? I know it can be somewhat improved by footwork and such. But isn't mostly something you either have or don't have?

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Fix the O-Line!

Can poor accuracy be significantly changed?  I know it can be somewhat improved by footwork and such.  But isn't mostly something you either have or don't have?

I'd say footwork can make a difference.  To put a number on it?  Who knows.

I'd also say decision making and play calling can make a very big difference.  Those two things can be coached.  Again - not easy to put a number on it.

Accuracy is simply completion percentage.  That takes no account for whether or not the right read was made or whether he forced the ball into a low percentage, high risk coverage situation.  Allen has been guilty of those things (risk taking, gunslinging.)  If making the proper reads and implementing higher percentage plays into the playbook, I think there is room to improve.

What was bad about the pro day though were how far off the short throws to the backs were.  I still think he bulked up for the pro day to look good during the "eye test" and that affected him.  Though, it's still a real question based on his body of work (and not just the pro day.)

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Strange as it might seem to others, Mayfield is the "safest" QB this year for me.

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Strange as it might seem to others, Mayfield is the "safest" QB this year for me.

I'd say Rosen 1, but Mayfield 2.

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

I just got done reading an article on NFL.com that said Lamar Jackson held his pro day workout today and refused to run the 40 or participate in any other testing for NFL scouts. All he will do, is participate in position drills. On top of that, Mike Mayock is reporting that several teams are having a hard time setting up meetings with Jackson. This really perplexes me. Wouldn't he want to set up as many meetings as possible to improve his chances of getting drafted higher? The article says he is being represented by his mother. It looks like she has no clue what she is doing. In any case, this isn't setting well for some NFL teams. Either he is getting very bad advice from his mother or this may be some kind of "diva type" behavior.

A smart move by Lamar Jackson. Leave them guessing what the forty speed is. Also, having his mom work as his manager might not be a bad thing at all. I recall Jimmy Smith was pretty much deserted by the agent(s), and his mom home-cooked up a PR pitch that knocked the socks off Jaguars' WR coach, Pete Carmichael. Jimmy's mom sent Pete a scrap book of newspaper clippings pertaining to Smith's career. Both Pete and HC Tom Coughlin were very impressed. Good thing Jimmy's mom did.

As for an agent not being in the mix, Lamar is his own agent. He believes rookie contracts are basically slotted by pick order. Lamar stated he doesn't want to give an agent "all my money". What a smart kid.

As for Lamar, the tosser of footballs....not the best pro day, but I came away much more impressed by Jackson as a person. He is who he is. He's not a fake. His interview with Mike Mayock showed a side of Lamar I had not seen before. Totally candid. Totally honest about himself. Remarkably respectful to Mike.

Jackson looked comfortable under center. Smart idea to have a snapper on the field. I did not see much of his footwork. I was examining his eyes and how well and alert his vision is. I figure there are enough foot work experts watching, plus the NFL Network cropped the shot a little high here and there. I did notice he fell back into a three step drop like in the blink of an eye. Wow.

I disagree with some of the scouting reports expressing concern that Lamar Jackson stature compares to Robert Griffin III. While Lamar is a bit of a stretch, his bone structure is NOT like RGIII's, particularly around the ankles. Lamar actually has pretty good bone density to my eyes. I'll bet he was a real good milk drinker growing up. As he continues to mature into manhood he has all the right places for additional girth so weight should not be a problem, but more of an aid.

Lamar showed a real weakness with all throws to his right. This was a glaring thing. Bucky Brooks noted it also. To his left, the balls were superbly thrown spirals, with a nice touch. He did NOT demonstrate the ability to make deep throws scrambling out of the pocket - on the move. All throws from a mobile platform were short to ten yards.

The question for a GM is this, how much time has Lamar Jackson spent with a QB tutor? A really good QB guru guy would NOT accept the inability to throw to his right on his pro day. He will have to work hard to get those throws corrected. 

Lamar Jackson never had to win me over. I know he has the type of talent to make it as a starting QB in the NFL, but the term is unclear. I do not consider him a franchise prospect. He needs to learn a pro system and lacks the persona to drive wholesale changes to a coaching staff. He easily shows the proper attitude for hard work. He will learn the large amount of devotion to the j-o-b a NFL starter must have.

I don't like kicking QBs up the draft board because they are QBs. While other prospects are nestled in the top three to five, Jackson is on the fringe of round one, with a likelihood he may be a solid second round pick.  If tomorrow the high and mighty QBs were appropriately placed in the round two range where their talents place them, this would not drive Jackson lower. Since the system won't correct over-valuing Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield etc. Lamar Jackson should be bumped up in the same area.

He put up BETTER college numbers than Michael Vick did.

There's really just no telling what the kid might ultimately be able to do in the NFL. He will have to figure out how to throw to his right, tho, because in this league that's precisely the sort of thing opposing defenses will capitalize on.

I'm still honestly debating Rudolph vs Jackson. I just really don't know. I know I like them both over my next tier of QBs including Luke Falk, Josh Allen, Chase Litton and Mike White.

That said, I say pass on both and ride with the new backup.  The only QBs I'd for sure take in this draft are Donald, Rosen and Mayfield, but one would have to fall to around #17 for the Jaguars to move up.

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'02

He's definitely a project but his upside is through the roof, higher than any other QB prospect.

It'll take a year or two before he's ready but a team like Jacksonville is primed for it.

He could go anywhere from early/mid 1 to probably mid round 2, so if he did get selected at 29, depending on how the jags have him rated, would likely be very good value.

What makes you think "his upside is through the roof, higher than any other QB prospect?"   What is the evidence of that?

I'm thinking he's saying that if Lamar Jackson's game translates to the next level, the league better look out. This isn't your typical QB.

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'02

I don't think he's a first round pick.   I think he'll be picked in the second round.

Agreed. If I didn't believe that a week ago, (which I did), I'd certainly have to believe that now. This has not been a good week for Jackson. It also would not surprise me in the least, to see up to two QB's go ahead of him that the so called, "experts" aren't projecting, i.e. Rudolph, Falk, White, Litton or Lauletta.

How confident are you? Wanna do a sig bet?

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Strange as it might seem to others, Mayfield is the "safest" QB this year for me.

I'd LOVE to get Mayfield. I love the stat that he had the by far the best QB rating among them when under pressure suggesting to me that he has an oustanding pocket presence. The only real negative I've even seen about Mayfield is that he's got fumblitis, but that's curable.

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'02

A smart move by Lamar Jackson. Leave them guessing what the forty speed is. Also, having his mom work as his manager might not be a bad thing at all. I recall Jimmy Smith was pretty much deserted by the agent(s), and his mom home-cooked up a PR pitch that knocked the socks off Jaguars' WR coach, Pete Carmichael. Jimmy's mom sent Pete a scrap book of newspaper clippings pertaining to Smith's career. Both Pete and HC Tom Coughlin were very impressed. Good thing Jimmy's mom did.

As for an agent not being in the mix, Lamar is his own agent. He believes rookie contracts are basically slotted by pick order. Lamar stated he doesn't want to give an agent "all my money". What a smart kid.

As for Lamar, the tosser of footballs....not the best pro day, but I came away much more impressed by Jackson as a person. He is who he is. He's not a fake. His interview with Mike Mayock showed a side of Lamar I had not seen before. Totally candid. Totally honest about himself. Remarkably respectful to Mike.

Jackson looked comfortable under center. Smart idea to have a snapper on the field. I did not see much of his footwork. I was examining his eyes and how well and alert his vision is. I figure there are enough foot work experts watching, plus the NFL Network cropped the shot a little high here and there. I did notice he fell back into a three step drop like in the blink of an eye. Wow.

I disagree with some of the scouting reports expressing concern that Lamar Jackson stature compares to Robert Griffin III. While Lamar is a bit of a stretch, his bone structure is NOT like RGIII's, particularly around the ankles. Lamar actually has pretty good bone density to my eyes. I'll bet he was a real good milk drinker growing up. As he continues to mature into manhood he has all the right places for additional girth so weight should not be a problem, but more of an aid.

Lamar showed a real weakness with all throws to his right. This was a glaring thing. Bucky Brooks noted it also. To his left, the balls were superbly thrown spirals, with a nice touch. He did NOT demonstrate the ability to make deep throws scrambling out of the pocket - on the move. All throws from a mobile platform were short to ten yards.

The question for a GM is this, how much time has Lamar Jackson spent with a QB tutor? A really good QB guru guy would NOT accept the inability to throw to his right on his pro day. He will have to work hard to get those throws corrected. 

Lamar Jackson never had to win me over. I know he has the type of talent to make it as a starting QB in the NFL, but the term is unclear. I do not consider him a franchise prospect. He needs to learn a pro system and lacks the persona to drive wholesale changes to a coaching staff. He easily shows the proper attitude for hard work. He will learn the large amount of devotion to the j-o-b a NFL starter must have.

I don't like kicking QBs up the draft board because they are QBs. While other prospects are nestled in the top three to five, Jackson is on the fringe of round one, with a likelihood he may be a solid second round pick.  If tomorrow the high and mighty QBs were appropriately placed in the round two range where their talents place them, this would not drive Jackson lower. Since the system won't correct over-valuing Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield etc. Lamar Jackson should be bumped up in the same area.

He put up BETTER college numbers than Michael Vick did.

There's really just no telling what the kid might ultimately be able to do in the NFL. He will have to figure out how to throw to his right, tho, because in this league that's precisely the sort of thing opposing defenses will capitalize on.

I'm still honestly debating Rudolph vs Jackson. I just really don't know. I know I like them both over my next tier of QBs including Luke Falk, Josh Allen, Chase Litton and Mike White.

That said, I say pass on both and ride with the new backup.  The only QBs I'd for sure take in this draft are Donald, Rosen and Mayfield, but one would have to fall to around #17 for the Jaguars to move up.

As for throwing to the right, I was going to go over a couple mash-ups to see if I can determine this is a real thing. It is possible he might have problems throwing to the short side of the field. There were a couple of tardy tosses to the left that lagged and/or cause the receiver to reach back or reach below the knee for the catch.

I post something later.

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Between Kiper and this “leak”, it appears someone is trying to pump up Allen’s draft stock......

I am equally suspicious.

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Can poor accuracy be significantly changed?  I know it can be somewhat improved by footwork and such.  But isn't mostly something you either have or don't have?

His accuracy is actually really good when his footwork and base are in place. Problem is he has a lot of issues with his footwork and base therefore low overall accuracy. When it comes to QB's anything below the waist is all teachable. Can't teach arm talent and Jackson has a strong live arm that can make all the throws. Any QB coach would take that challenge on. He just needs to be in the right situation to sit and learn.. and an offense catered to him... oh and who has the BEST offense for Jackson? The Jags! RPO and run heavy... Jackson made!

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Can poor accuracy be significantly changed?  I know it can be somewhat improved by footwork and such.  But isn't mostly something you either have or don't have?

His accuracy is actually really good when his footwork and base are in place. Problem is he has a lot of issues with his footwork and base therefore low overall accuracy. When it comes to QB's anything below the waist is all teachable. Can't teach arm talent and Jackson has a strong live arm that can make all the throws. Any QB coach would take that challenge on. He just needs to be in the right situation to sit and learn.. and an offense catered to him... oh and who has the BEST offense for Jackson? The Jags! RPO and run heavy... Jackson made!

      The real scoop on Lamar. He was not recruited by the University of Louisville, he sent Bobby Petrine a videotape. The rumor is it took Bobby 2 minutes of watching to offer a scholarship.

When he arrived at UL, he claims to never have seen a playbook before. He said in High School they literally had a dry erase board in the sidelines to draw plays. The coaching staff tried to get him to switch positions because he was initially so overwhelmed, but Lamar stuck it out. 

If you would take the time to watch film on him from all 3 of the seasons he played in college, you would be amazed by the amount of progress he made. He went from ground zero in machanics, pocket presence, footwork, reading defenses, game management,etc. to a fairly polished product. He still tries to do too much on his own, but he is all heart and desire to win.

He will not be the most successful QB drafted in year 1 if NFL play. He will provide some “oh my gosh” moments both good and bad. If I could bet which of the rookie QBs end up as NFL franchise QBs in 5 years, I would bet the farm on Lamar. Give him. 3 to 5 years with NFL coaches and it is scary how good he could be.

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His accuracy is actually really good when his footwork and base are in place. Problem is he has a lot of issues with his footwork and base therefore low overall accuracy. When it comes to QB's anything below the waist is all teachable. Can't teach arm talent and Jackson has a strong live arm that can make all the throws. Any QB coach would take that challenge on. He just needs to be in the right situation to sit and learn.. and an offense catered to him... oh and who has the BEST offense for Jackson? The Jags! RPO and run heavy... Jackson made!

      The real scoop on Lamar. He was not recruited by the University of Louisville, he sent Bobby Petrine a videotape. The rumor is it took Bobby 2 minutes of watching to offer a scholarship.

When he arrived at UL, he claims to never have seen a playbook before. He said in High School they literally had a dry erase board in the sidelines to draw plays. The coaching staff tried to get him to switch positions because he was initially so overwhelmed, but Lamar stuck it out. 

If you would take the time to watch film on him from all 3 of the seasons he played in college, you would be amazed by the amount of progress he made. He went from ground zero in machanics, pocket presence, footwork, reading defenses, game management,etc. to a fairly polished product. He still tries to do too much on his own, but he is all heart and desire to win.

He will not be the most successful QB drafted in year 1 if NFL play. He will provide some “oh my gosh” moments both good and bad. If I could bet which of the rookie QBs end up as NFL franchise QBs in 5 years, I would bet the farm on Lamar. Give him. 3 to 5 years with NFL coaches and it is scary how good he could be.

Why do you want to lose your farm?

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Watch some of y'all be very disappointed when the Jaguars pass on Lamar Jackson if he was to fall to the 29th pick. I guess some of y'all are still in the anybody but Blake crowd but the brass made their decision and we have no choice but to respect it.

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Watch some of y'all be very disappointed when the Jaguars pass on Lamar Jackson if he was to fall to the 29th pick. I guess some of y'all are still in the anybody but Blake crowd but the brass made their decision and we have no choice but to respect it.

I think you’re right - they won’t pick Jackson.

But I also don’t see a problem with discussing the possibility.

We’re debating who the Jaguars might draft and that is inevitably going to mean someone on the current roster being demoted or cut.

I think most people in these message boards understand it’s nothing personal.

Similarly, I think we should draft a guard. That doesn’t mean I’m in the “anybody but AJ Cann crowd”. He’s done ok. I just think there may be better alternatives in the draft.

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Just watched Louisville v. NC State 

Have to say my regard for Lamar Jackson has been disrupted by his actual game play.

His arm should be a question. He was inaccurate on most all deep throws. They lacked timing above a lack of touch. NC State has a pretty good pass rush. They might be representative of a NFL caliber defense which is why I selected this game at Draft Breakdown. 

Time after time Jackson was inaccurate with throws. He did show some kind of special talent running, but failed to impress me with his arm. He failed to impress me with leadership and as one with a grasp of the quarterback position. 

I saw a quarterback start a play, pause, then along with the entire offense look to the sideline for direction. It strongly appears that he is given a single target to throw to or run. His inconstancy as a quarterback showed. He lacked poise too often to suggest he is any kind of solid game prep disciple.  

As much as I like the person Lamar Jackson is as I saw at his Pro Day, after catching some video of his college play I don't give Jackson much edge in any facet of quarterback play above maybe a fifth to seventh round grade. 

That said....I want NC State LB Germaine Pratt to become a Jaguar. 

At 8:28 of the video of Louisville v. NC State, NC State LB #3  breaks off a assignment where he was covering the QB's left flat area in zone to chase down a Louisville pass receiver from behind.

https://youtu.be/26whkxUxftU

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https://youtu.be/26whkxUxftU

Unrelated to Lamar Jackson, but this video made me think, "What would a metallic teal helmet with the all white Jaguars logo look like?" Intriguing if the NFL got over their asinine 1-helmet rule

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Just watched Louisville v. NC State 

Have to say my regard for Lamar Jackson has been disrupted by his actual game play.

His arm should be a question. He was inaccurate on most all deep throws. They lacked timing above a lack of touch. NC State has a pretty good pass rush. They might be representative of a NFL caliber defense which is why I selected this game at Draft Breakdown. 

Time after time Jackson was inaccurate with throws. He did show some kind of special talent running, but failed to impress me with his arm. He failed to impress me with leadership and as one with a grasp of the quarterback position. 

I saw a quarterback start a play, pause, then along with the entire offense look to the sideline for direction. It strongly appears that he is given a single target to throw to or run. His inconstancy as a quarterback showed. He lacked poise too often to suggest he is any kind of solid game prep disciple.  

As much as I like the person Lamar Jackson is as I saw at his Pro Day, after catching some video of his college play I don't give Jackson much edge in any facet of quarterback play above maybe a fifth to seventh round grade. 

That said....I want NC State LB Germaine Pratt to become a Jaguar. 

At 8:28 of the video of Louisville v. NC State, NC State LB #3  breaks off a assignment where he was covering the QB's left flat area in zone to chase down a Louisville pass receiver from behind.

https://youtu.be/26whkxUxftU

"Based on one YouTube cutup of Lamar Jackson playing, which clearly I haven't watched him prior to this at all, I say he's a 5th to 7th rounder."

Lolololololol

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Allen will be the biggest bust of the top QBs drafted this year.

His is the most inaccurate QB in this group and he played against the worst competition.

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