Our offense is currently ranked 19th in the League and our defense is 23rd.  I get that stats are not everything, but it is inaccurate to think we have this juggernaut offense and the only reason we are losing is because of the defense.  The roster is bad across the board.  I agree the jury is out on Minshew still, but there is reason for concern the last couple of weeks.

I think the defensive stats are probably a more true reflection than the offensive stats.  We've been coming from behind almost every game and the offensive gameplan is out the window quickly.  Saying that I'm not sure the offense is a juggernaut either.  Minshew has been a solid QB but hasnt shown anything to make him elite.  And we seem to have pretty solid skill players on offense but not sure we have anyone elite there either.  It's a solid offense that at times looks really good but is inconsistent.  The question that obviously needs to be answered is will Minshew get better as the year goes on or has he already peaked.  It's easy to say the 6'0 guy without a strong arm has already peaked because odds are that is likely the case.  But sometimes QB have something extra.  Minshew seems like the kind of guy that could.  We'll find out.  

The defense on the otherhand has been awful.  Not sure if those stats you are looking at are yards or points per game.  Points per game is misleading because of some of those stops deep in our territory.  We just cant stop anyone.  And we don't seem to be physical up front.  Sure the talent may be lacking but they just look soft.  Where is the attitude?  I think the talent is better than the results.

If the talent is better than the results, it's not by much.  I know they need better coaching, but they also are in dire need of better players.  

But hey, glass half full!  We only need two things!   Better coaching and better players.

---

The problem is the Jags have never really been able to teach and develop the players they draft. This has an effect on motivation. The ones they did draft had to rely on outside sources for development. Look at the rosters that have been playoff teams, they seem to be anchored by people others taught. Am I wrong?

---

A new broom always sweeps clean.

They might be able to beat the Bears. They terrible to watch. NIck Foles is weak arm garbage.

---

Lol juggernaut offense. No one is saying we have a juggernaut offense. Look at our time of possession vs. opponent's. The fact that we are only losing by one or two possessions tells me enough that the Offense is good enough to be competitive.

If by competitive, you mean 6-10, then sure.  We have a competitive offense.  That's about what the 19th or 20th ranked offense in the League will get you.

Yeah okay man. There hasn't been a game yet that we wouldn't have been able to win if our defense could make a few stops. So my opinion is our offense is capable until I see evidence otherwise. Quoting statistics is arbitrary, it doesn't tell the whole story.

---

If by competitive, you mean 6-10, then sure.  We have a competitive offense.  That's about what the 19th or 20th ranked offense in the League will get you.

Yeah okay man. There hasn't been a game yet that we wouldn't have been able to win if our defense could make a few stops. So my opinion is our offense is capable until I see evidence otherwise. Quoting statistics is arbitrary, it doesn't tell the whole story.

I agree with your statement about quoting stats.  You do it all the time when it favors your argument.  You can't cherry-pick your stats... you need to look at all of them.

I'm not defending our D.  They suck.  I'm just saying our offense has nothing to get real excited about either... we are below average.  Including our QB.  But you can fire out some more stats for me if you'd like.

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Yeah okay man. There hasn't been a game yet that we wouldn't have been able to win if our defense could make a few stops. So my opinion is our offense is capable until I see evidence otherwise. Quoting statistics is arbitrary, it doesn't tell the whole story.

I agree with your statement about quoting stats.  You do it all the time when it favors your argument.  You can't cherry-pick your stats... you need to look at all of them.

I'm not defending our D.  They suck.  I'm just saying our offense has nothing to get real excited about either... we are below average.  Including our QB.  But you can fire out some more stats for me if you'd like.

I'm not quoting stats, I don't need to, I watch the games. 

If you did too, you'd know our offense needs to score every drive to have a chance at winning a game. And the fact the games have been one or two possession games in the 4th quarter tells me enough to know that our offense is doing enough, at least so far. It's not like we're going up against world beaters or anything if I'm being fair.

Our worst game was against Miami, I'm not sure we even forced a punt in the second half. Since we're talking about the stats, let's take a peak at how many forced punts we've had, 3. We've got 3 "Punt Returns" on the season. Lol. The fact we have 1 win is a miracle, ironic its the only game where the defense at least had 1 quarter of average play.

Bottom line is, none of us are in charge of this team or it's roster so it's moot. But the key thing to building a good football team is to recognize your weaknesses and to do your best to nullify them. Right now we've got a young offense that is good enough. There's no point in making them the focus when regardless of how good they are, our defense is bad enough to lose it for us. So you go into the draft, grab some defensive studs, which Caldwell seems good at doing anyway.. get some free agent signings and maybe grab an Olinemen if one falls to us. Go into next year and I'll grab a torch and pitchfork with the rest of you guys if we don't make the playoffs.

---

I agree with your statement about quoting stats.  You do it all the time when it favors your argument.  You can't cherry-pick your stats... you need to look at all of them.

I'm not defending our D.  They suck.  I'm just saying our offense has nothing to get real excited about either... we are below average.  Including our QB.  But you can fire out some more stats for me if you'd like.

I'm not quoting stats, I don't need to, I watch the games. 

If you did too, you'd know our offense needs to score every drive to have a chance at winning a game. And the fact the games have been one or two possession games in the 4th quarter tells me enough to know that our offense is doing enough, at least so far. It's not like we're going up against world beaters or anything if I'm being fair.

Our worst game was against Miami, I'm not sure we even forced a punt in the second half. Since we're talking about the stats, let's take a peak at how many forced punts we've had, 3. We've got 3 "Punt Returns" on the season. Lol. The fact we have 1 win is a miracle, ironic its the only game where the defense at least had 1 quarter of average play.

Bottom line is, none of us are in charge of this team or it's roster so it's moot. But the key thing to building a good football team is to recognize your weaknesses and to do your best to nullify them. Right now we've got a young offense that is good enough. There's no point in making them the focus when regardless of how good they are, our defense is bad enough to lose it for us. So you go into the draft, grab some defensive studs, which Caldwell seems good at doing anyway.. get some free agent signings and maybe grab an Olinemen if one falls to us. Go into next year and I'll grab a torch and pitchfork with the rest of you guys if we don't make the playoffs.

I could quote the numerous times you've mentioned QB stats, so your point is ridiculous.  And forgive me if I have zero faith in your objective opinion of our quarterback play given your choice of message board username.  I don't hate your boy... I just don't think he's special.  If we are drafting in the Top 5 next year (and we will be), we will likely need a QB.

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

I'm not quoting stats, I don't need to, I watch the games. 

If you did too, you'd know our offense needs to score every drive to have a chance at winning a game. And the fact the games have been one or two possession games in the 4th quarter tells me enough to know that our offense is doing enough, at least so far. It's not like we're going up against world beaters or anything if I'm being fair.

Our worst game was against Miami, I'm not sure we even forced a punt in the second half. Since we're talking about the stats, let's take a peak at how many forced punts we've had, 3. We've got 3 "Punt Returns" on the season. Lol. The fact we have 1 win is a miracle, ironic its the only game where the defense at least had 1 quarter of average play.

Bottom line is, none of us are in charge of this team or it's roster so it's moot. But the key thing to building a good football team is to recognize your weaknesses and to do your best to nullify them. Right now we've got a young offense that is good enough. There's no point in making them the focus when regardless of how good they are, our defense is bad enough to lose it for us. So you go into the draft, grab some defensive studs, which Caldwell seems good at doing anyway.. get some free agent signings and maybe grab an Olinemen if one falls to us. Go into next year and I'll grab a torch and pitchfork with the rest of you guys if we don't make the playoffs.

I could quote the numerous times you've mentioned QB stats, so your point is ridiculous.  And forgive me if I have zero faith in your objective opinion of our quarterback play given your choice of message board username.  I don't hate your boy... I just don't think he's special.  If we are drafting in the Top 5 next year (and we will be), we will likely need a QB.

Well unless we lose more than the Jets we're not getting Trevor Lawrence. You suggest we trade up for him? What QB would you pick if you were the GM? How would you address defense?

---

I could quote the numerous times you've mentioned QB stats, so your point is ridiculous.  And forgive me if I have zero faith in your objective opinion of our quarterback play given your choice of message board username.  I don't hate your boy... I just don't think he's special.  If we are drafting in the Top 5 next year (and we will be), we will likely need a QB.

Well unless we lose more than the Jets we're not getting Trevor Lawrence. You suggest we trade up for him? What QB would you pick if you were the GM? How would you address defense?

I'm not throwing your boy under the bus yet.  I want to see the season play out and continue to evaluate him.  The Jets may win a few games still.  Remember how badly Miami started the season last year?  They were losing by 3-4 scores for the first month of games.  Too soon to tell.  But if our new GM comes in wants a true franchise QB, he is going to get one.  There is no quick fixes with this brutal roster.

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Well unless we lose more than the Jets we're not getting Trevor Lawrence. You suggest we trade up for him? What QB would you pick if you were the GM? How would you address defense?

But if our new GM comes in wants a true franchise QB, he is going to get one.  There is no quick fixes with this brutal roster.

I think this is key. If there is a regime change we can almost guarantee a new QB. Which is fine, that's a full reset, new GM/HC combo will want their guy. Minshew certainly has shown enough to be a very good back up at least. If Caldwell is still here, I'm almost certain they continue to build around Minshew, unless he really regresses and actually becomes the reason we're losing games.
And to answer Mania's question.... It's early for the college season but outside of Lawrence, Trask and Jones both look really good. Fields will play at some point. And a lot of pundits like the kid from NDSU (though, I'm not much of a fan and I don't think he's playing a bunch this year iirc). It's almost always like this too, it's "THIS QB OR NO ONE". Like when it was Tua and then everyone else. Then the season happens and Burrow is the #1 guy. Herbert is also playing okay (better than I thought he would) and Herbert was being talked up as a guy that woulda coulda been #1 overall the year earlier had he came out early. There's almost never just 1 QB in any draft. And there's almost always one that goes later (outside top ten) that ends up better than people expected.


There's also no guarantee a team like Washington, Jets, or Giants definitely go QB if they have #1 overall pick. They could get the best LT or pass rusher from the class.

---

But if our new GM comes in wants a true franchise QB, he is going to get one.  There is no quick fixes with this brutal roster.

I think this is key. If there is a regime change we can almost guarantee a new QB. Which is fine, that's a full reset, new GM/HC combo will want their guy. Minshew certainly has shown enough to be a very good back up at least. If Caldwell is still here, I'm almost certain they continue to build around Minshew, unless he really regresses and actually becomes the reason we're losing games.
And to answer Mania's question.... It's early for the college season but outside of Lawrence, Trask and Jones both look really good. Fields will play at some point. And a lot of pundits like the kid from NDSU (though, I'm not much of a fan and I don't think he's playing a bunch this year iirc). It's almost always like this too, it's "THIS QB OR NO ONE". Like when it was Tua and then everyone else. Then the season happens and Burrow is the #1 guy. Herbert is also playing okay (better than I thought he would) and Herbert was being talked up as a guy that woulda coulda been #1 overall the year earlier had he came out early. There's almost never just 1 QB in any draft. And there's almost always one that goes later (outside top ten) that ends up better than people expected.


There's also no guarantee a team like Washington, Jets, or Giants definitely go QB if they have #1 overall pick. They could get the best LT or pass rusher from the class.

Exactly right.  Also look at the 2017 Draft that was considered to have a "weak" QB class at the time; it produced Mahomes at #10 and Watson at #12, after Trubisky was drafted #2.  If our brain trust had any vision at the #4 pick, we would be in a very different position today. We just cut our #4 pick. If/when our new GM gets here in January, he will evaluate Minshew's season and the other QB's in the Draft and decide what course is best for this team. No one can possibly trust Caldwell to that again.

The best teams are built through the Draft. We are not one of them.

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

It still sickens me we could have gotten Mahomes or Watson.

That said, Khan said before the season he expected results of progress or there would be changes.

I don’t see us winning more then 6 games so hopefully the staff is gone.

I have always had a hard and fast rule that I could NEVER root for my team to lose. No matter what. This season is making it difficult, because this offseason will determine the next few seasons and beyond for this franchise.

If Khan retains the staff and Caldwell, then that tells you all you need to know about his intentions; LFL (TM 2020), Losing for London no longer becomes a fringe conspiracy theory among the fan base

---

I think this is key. If there is a regime change we can almost guarantee a new QB. Which is fine, that's a full reset, new GM/HC combo will want their guy. Minshew certainly has shown enough to be a very good back up at least. If Caldwell is still here, I'm almost certain they continue to build around Minshew, unless he really regresses and actually becomes the reason we're losing games.
And to answer Mania's question.... It's early for the college season but outside of Lawrence, Trask and Jones both look really good. Fields will play at some point. And a lot of pundits like the kid from NDSU (though, I'm not much of a fan and I don't think he's playing a bunch this year iirc). It's almost always like this too, it's "THIS QB OR NO ONE". Like when it was Tua and then everyone else. Then the season happens and Burrow is the #1 guy. Herbert is also playing okay (better than I thought he would) and Herbert was being talked up as a guy that woulda coulda been #1 overall the year earlier had he came out early. There's almost never just 1 QB in any draft. And there's almost always one that goes later (outside top ten) that ends up better than people expected.


There's also no guarantee a team like Washington, Jets, or Giants definitely go QB if they have #1 overall pick. They could get the best LT or pass rusher from the class.

Exactly right.  Also look at the 2017 Draft that was considered to have a "weak" QB class at the time; it produced Mahomes at #10 and Watson at #12, after Trubisky was drafted #2.  If our brain trust had any vision at the #4 pick, we would be in a very different position today.  We just cut our #4 pick.  If/when our new GM gets here in January, he will evaluate Minshew's season and the other QB's in the Draft and decide what course is best for this team.  No one can possibly trust Caldwell to that again.

The best teams are built through the Draft.  We are not one of them.

I think it's gonna have to be about 4 wins or less for Khan to actually clean house. Based on the last 2 week's it seems more possible than I thought preseason. But if they get close to 6 wins I think they're on pace for the plan they (Doug and Dave) sold him in the offseason. Shed cap, get young (again), attack 2021 more aggressively in free agency and hope the offense carries the D while it slowly gets better with a lot of young drafted talent. Allen, Chaisson, Henderson, Hamilton. Then a few studs in 2021 free agency plus lots of draft capital, again.

I wanted a cleaned house last off season, fresh GM and HC with vision [was lobbying hard on message board for Riddick and Bienemy] but I also want to win as much as possible so this season is certainly shaping up to be a catch 22. Either suck and clean house a year after we should have already (basically punting on 2021 as well) or win enough to keep Caldwell and Doug around another year (possibly shaping up to be hitting reset again in 2022)
Lots of people will want to lose. Tank for [whatever QB], lose to finally fire [somebody, anybody]. I still want to win now. I want to look back at 2020 and be like "wow that started rough but we ACTUALLY have a future".

Only 12 games to go...

---

It still sickens me we could have gotten Mahomes or Watson.

That said, Khan said before the season he expected results of progress or there would be changes.

I don’t see us winning more then 6 games so hopefully the staff is gone.

I have always had a hard and fast rule that I could NEVER root for my team to lose. No matter what. This season is making it difficult, because this offseason will determine the next few seasons and beyond for this franchise.

If Khan retains the staff and Caldwell, then that tells you all you need to know about his intentions; LFL (TM 2020), Losing for London no longer becomes a fringe conspiracy theory among the fan base

Agree with everything you said.  I called 6-10 at the beginning of the season, but we have no shot at 6 wins.

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Now that we have a better idea of the teams and their skill levels, how many more wins do you guys think we get?

Good QBs are going to destroy this team so even though the Lions aren’t that good, Stafford will have a field day.

I’m thinking 2-3 more wins?

2xTexans, Colts, Titans, Chargers, Lions, Bears, Vikings, Browns, Steelers, Packers, Ravens.

---

Now that we have a better idea of the teams and their skill levels, how many more wins do you guys think we get?

Good QBs are going to destroy this team so even though the Lions aren’t that good, Stafford will have a field day.

I’m thinking 2-3 more wins?

2xTexans, Colts, Titans, Chargers, Lions, Bears, Vikings, Browns, Steelers, Packers, Ravens.

Its really hard to see even one more win on that list.  We will not be favorites in any of those games.  The "easy" part of our schedule already ended yesterday.

I'm saying we somehow win 2 more and go 3-13.

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Last year the Jags beat teams they should beat. This year they are not even doing that. The two games they have played the best were the first two games against division rivals. Maybe there is a small sliver of hope that they will continue to "get up" for divisonal rivals, maybe good teams and can squeeze at least a couple of more wins that way. Teams do tend to play hard in divisional matchups and some teams play up and down to their competitions. I don't know that the Jags are doing the latter, but they have played tough against divisional opponents. Thus far, maybe they will do that again and get a couple of more wins against them.

We'll see how they fare against the Texans next week who are both a divisional rival and a bad team. Unforuntately, I could see DeShaun Watson carving them up next week. It could be another rough outing for them. The defense is playing so badly, it's going to be hard for the team to overcome that. And now we have some more injuries that have happened as well, including Shenault who has a hamstring injury.

---

Last year the Jags beat teams they should beat. This year they are not even doing that. The two games they have played the best were the first two games against division rivals. Maybe there is a small sliver of hope that they will continue to "get up" for divisonal rivals, maybe good teams and can squeeze at least a couple of more wins that way. Teams do tend to play hard in divisional matchups and some teams play up and down to their competitions. I don't know that the Jags are doing the latter, but they have played tough against divisional opponents. Thus far, maybe they will do that again and get a couple of more wins against them.

We'll see how they fare against the Texans next week who are both a divisional rival and a bad team. Unforuntately, I could see DeShaun Watson carving them up next week. It could be another rough outing for them. The defense is playing so badly, it's going to be hard for the team to overcome that. And now we have some more injuries that have happened as well, including Shenault who has a hamstring injury.

Well, if we just beat the teams we should beat (i.e. teams we are more talented than) for the remainder of this season, we will finish 1-15 now. We will be an underdog in every game the rest of the way.

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Man we have so little talent. I really hope khan finally brings in some real leadership. We need a little hope. It’s sad it’s come to this yet again.

---

I’m looking at the schedule and I don’t see how Jacksonville wins another game. 

Please don’t give me the “too much talent” speech. 

Offense has Robinson and Chark and Minshew sometimes; but even then they can’t score consistently. 

Accounting for an unexpected upset, which always happens, for better or for worse; this team is looking at 2-14. 

We’re heading for another rebuild and it sickens me to type that. This fan base and this city have  suffered enough

This is one of the youngest, least experienced teams in the league, and a weird COVID year that limited pre-season reps only made that worse. This was always already a rebuilding season. I don't understand why so many people are stunned by this. And injuries to the most talented players will worsen the results by magnitudes.

The only really bad thing is that so far the vary majority of the "if this happens" have not happened, and it is somewhat limiting a fair evaluation of Minshew. Still, it's only 4 games so far, and this is a very young team. The guys that can stay healthy should be much better by the end of the season, even in spite of a suspect player development team. But this season was always really about 2021. I know that stinks given the last 20 years, but it is what it is. 

Also the whole "the fan base has suffered enough is stupid". I had a front-row seat to an owner stealing my childhood football team out from under me. It could definitely be better, but at least its football.

---