As everyone expected this had to happen but I think they could have handled it with more finesse from a directorial standpoint.  The laying on of  hands and dramatic pause and startled eyes snapping open was a little cliched.  Especially since it seemed to cost Melisandre so much effort to kill Renly but bringing someone back from the dead apparently just requires some overdue grooming.  

 

Yeah, I expected more histrionics from Melisandre, instead we get a chest massage and a sad sigh. It was cool the way Ghost realized he was back even before Jon Snow opened his eyes.

 

I don't know if it was direction or editing, but several scenes were lacking. Balon Greyjoy's death and funeral, the Wildings turning the tide, Arya's redemption...they seemed flat. I like the story lines, but I'm not getting much depth.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Yeah, I expected more histrionics from Melisandre, instead we get a chest massage and a sad sigh. It was cool the way Ghost realized he was back even before Jon Snow opened his eyes.

 

I don't know if it was direction or editing, but several scenes were lacking. Balon Greyjoy's death and funeral, the Wildings turning the tide, Arya's redemption...they seemed flat. I like the story lines, but I'm not getting much depth.

Did Ghost notice Jon or was Jon warged into Ghost during his death?

---

Did Ghost notice Jon or was Jon warged into Ghost during his death?

 

That's too deep for me.

 

Caldrac?

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

I'm not entirely sure why, but I kind of liked Roose even though I'm not supposed to. There was a certain dignity to his malice, much like Tywin, whom I also liked for what he was.

 

Oh I agree, I liked the character actually, seemed quite pragmatic compared to the other head cases on the show, I just wanted Jon to be the one to off him.  

 

Yeah, I expected more histrionics from Melisandre, instead we get a chest massage and a sad sigh. It was cool the way Ghost realized he was back even before Jon Snow opened his eyes.

 

I don't know if it was direction or editing, but several scenes were lacking. Balon Greyjoy's death and funeral, the Wildings turning the tide, Arya's redemption...they seemed flat. I like the story lines, but I'm not getting much depth.

 

I agree with all that,  the Balon death scene in particular was pretty poor imo, maybe it's because there was no actually build up for it.  It felt like it sorta just happened because they needed to move that story line forward.

---

That's too deep for me.

 

Caldrac?

 

I think he was in Ghost the whole time. It may be revealed later on this season. The show hides the obvious clues and signs. Mel foresaw Jon's death and warned him. She also mentions the vision in the flames of seeing Jon in a battle at Winterfell BEFORE his death in the book. So more than likely they'll show that Jon warged into Ghost. He literally calls out to Ghost in the book before he dies. It was his last words. I agree with the lack of depth though. Now that the show is ahead of the books I feel like they're doing speed runs over multiple stories and they're leaving out a lot of opportunity to showcase each character. I guess the show is almost over. 2017 could be the final season. I think it's too predictable at this point. GRRM said it will end in a bittersweet fashion. But given his notoriety of killing off favorite characters. Jon's revival really changes everything. And I am not even sold nor convinced that he's actually "Azor Ahai" just yet. Afterall, Thoros was able to bring back Berric but also Catelyn Stark. Maybe it's a more common magic than Mel realizes.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Did Ghost notice Jon or was Jon warged into Ghost during his death?

Is Jon a warg in the books? I don't recall that being the case. I think Bran is the only Stark to have that ability. But I also haven't rewatched previous seasons recently either.

---

Is Jon a warg in the books? I don't recall that being the case. I think Bran is the only Stark to have that ability. But I also haven't rewatched previous seasons recently either.

I've not read the books but warging seems to be a trait shared amongst the Northmen, and in particular the Starks and Reeds.


But... they've kind of alluded to some stuff with the Starks and their direwolves. Remember Robb was rumored to "turn into a wolf" and weren't his last words his direwolf's name?


As previously mentioned, in the books, Jons last word is Ghost. I think they omitted that in the show because that would make it too obvious.


It's just something I've been paying attention to for now, could turn out to be nothing.

---

I've not read the books but warging seems to be a trait shared amongst the Northmen, and in particular the Starks and Reeds.


But... they've kind of alluded to some stuff with the Starks and their direwolves. Remember Robb was rumored to "turn into a wolf" and weren't his last words his direwolf's name?


As previously mentioned, in the books, Jons last word is Ghost. I think they omitted that in the show because that would make it too obvious.


It's just something I've been paying attention to for now, could turn out to be nothing.

Gotcha. It's been awhile since I've read the books and watched previous seasons so I don't remember a lot to be honest. I guess I need to catch up on things. I'm recovering from shoulder surgery so I have a lot of time to kill. 

 

I do vaguely remember stuff about the direwolves and the Starks and the connection. I was pretty mad when Sansa's and Robb's were killed and IIRC Arya shooed hers away so it wouldn't be killed by Joffrey's men. I don't remember what happened to Brann and Rickon's wolves. Yeah, I reckon I need to binge watch some seasons. Lol.

---

Is Jon a warg in the books? I don't recall that being the case. I think Bran is the only Stark to have that ability. But I also haven't rewatched previous seasons recently either.

Yes he has a great chapter when he is with the Halfhand,  Most of the chapter takes place through ghosts perspective and he sees the great wildling army and then Jon wakes up and tells the Halfhand his dream and they immediately start retreating,  The show did a really short version of that part of the book

 

I've not read the books but warging seems to be a trait shared amongst the Northmen, and in particular the Starks and Reeds.


But... they've kind of alluded to some stuff with the Starks and their direwolves. Remember Robb was rumored to "turn into a wolf" and weren't his last words his direwolf's name?


As previously mentioned, in the books, Jons last word is Ghost. I think they omitted that in the show because that would make it too obvious.


It's just something I've been paying attention to for now, could turn out to be nothing.

 

They all have the trait.  [spoiler]Arya in the books wargs into cats when she is blind to "see without seeing" for her faceless training. That jumpstarts her shift and she then starts having wolf dreams which is how Jon and Bran both started. Robb's was always more looked at as a subconscious warg we never get a POV of him in the book, Sansa's wolf is dead before it manifests, Rickon never has a POV. It is interesting that all the wolfs carried their owners traits.... or is it vice versa? [/spoiler]

---

Go Jags!
*To stay up for atleast 2 years 3/6/17
2016 draft players I think will be good

• On the Fournette train, will be best back of his class 3/6/17
  
• Lattimore please,  Lockdowns on both sides would be nice
  
• Engram at TE and the MJD clone Samaje Perine
  

I think he was in Ghost the whole time. It may be revealed later on this season. The show hides the obvious clues and signs. Mel foresaw Jon's death and warned him. She also mentions the vision in the flames of seeing Jon in a battle at Winterfell BEFORE his death in the book. So more than likely they'll show that Jon warged into Ghost. He literally calls out to Ghost in the book before he dies. It was his last words. I agree with the lack of depth though. Now that the show is ahead of the books I feel like they're doing speed runs over multiple stories and they're leaving out a lot of opportunity to showcase each character. I guess the show is almost over. 2017 could be the final season. I think it's too predictable at this point. GRRM said it will end in a bittersweet fashion. But given his notoriety of killing off favorite characters. Jon's revival really changes everything. And I am not even sold nor convinced that he's actually "Azor Ahai" just yet. Afterall, Thoros was able to bring back Berric but also Catelyn Stark. Maybe it's a more common magic than Mel realizes.

 

This is why I referred the question to you.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Jon is a warg for sure. They reference it and hint at it a bunch in the last book. He was told to keep Ghost around him as well. And a Wildling warg told him he has power and may not know it or realize it yet. And similar to Arya, they have "wolf dreams". And they're vivid. They can smell what the wolf smells and taste and sense what the wolf smells in their dreams. In reality, it's a good chance when they sleep they unknowingly warg out of their physical bodies. I think it's a Stark trait. An old magic in their blood that was gifted a long time ago. Some are more sensitive to it than others. Like Bran. And I honestly think it ties to magic over the wall with the wildlings and green children. That's why Ned was EXTREMELY devoted to the old gods.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Jon is a warg for sure. They reference it and hint at it a bunch in the last book. He was told to keep Ghost around him as well. And a Wildling warg told him he has power and may not know it or realize it yet. And similar to Arya, they have "wolf dreams". And they're vivid. They can smell what the wolf smells and taste and sense what the wolf smells in their dreams. In reality, it's a good chance when they sleep they unknowingly warg out of their physical bodies. I think it's a Stark trait. An old magic in their blood that was gifted a long time ago. Some are more sensitive to it than others. Like Bran. And I honestly think it ties to magic over the wall with the wildlings and green children. That's why Ned was EXTREMELY devoted to the old gods.

Are these spread out over several books or is it in one or two? I'm trying to remember, but as I've said, it's been awhile. May have to bring up the books from my Kindle to get the full story since the show is condensing so much of it. 

---

Yes he has a great chapter when he is with the Halfhand,  Most of the chapter takes place through ghosts perspective and he sees the great wildling army and then Jon wakes up and tells the Halfhand his dream and they immediately start retreating,  The show did a really short version of that part of the book

 

Which book has this chapter?


 

 

They all have the trait.  [spoiler]Arya in the books wargs into cats when she is blind to "see without seeing" for her faceless training. That jumpstarts her shift and she then starts having wolf dreams which is how Jon and Bran both started. Robb's was always more looked at as a subconscious warg we never get a POV of him in the book, Sansa's wolf is dead before it manifests, Rickon never has a POV. It is interesting that all the wolfs carried their owners traits.... or is it vice versa? [/spoiler]

---

Jon is a warg for sure. They reference it and hint at it a bunch in the last book. He was told to keep Ghost around him as well. And a Wildling warg told him he has power and may not know it or realize it yet. And similar to Arya, they have "wolf dreams". And they're vivid. They can smell what the wolf smells and taste and sense what the wolf smells in their dreams. In reality, it's a good chance when they sleep they unknowingly warg out of their physical bodies. I think it's a Stark trait. An old magic in their blood that was gifted a long time ago. Some are more sensitive to it than others. Like Bran. And I honestly think it ties to magic over the wall with the wildlings and green children. That's why Ned was EXTREMELY devoted to the old gods.

 

It's no coincidence the wolf is the stark family sigil.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="realtorpat" data-cid="745481" data-time="1462287825">
<div>
Yes he has a great chapter when he is with the Halfhand,  Most of the chapter takes place through ghosts perspective and he sees the great wildling army and then Jon wakes up and tells the Halfhand his dream and they immediately start retreating,  The show did a really short version of that part of the book

 

Which book has this chapter?


 

 

They all have the trait.  [spoiler]Arya in the books wargs into cats when she is blind to "see without seeing" for her faceless training. That jumpstarts her shift and she then starts having wolf dreams which is how Jon and Bran both started. Robb's was always more looked at as a subconscious warg we never get a POV of him in the book, Sansa's wolf is dead before it manifests, Rickon never has a POV. It is interesting that all the wolfs carried their owners traits.... or is it vice versa? [/spoiler]

 

</div>
</blockquote>


its in clash of kings,  chapter 53 or the 2nd to last Jon Chapter

---

Go Jags!
*To stay up for atleast 2 years 3/6/17
2016 draft players I think will be good

• On the Fournette train, will be best back of his class 3/6/17
  
• Lattimore please,  Lockdowns on both sides would be nice
  
• Engram at TE and the MJD clone Samaje Perine
  

It's no coincidence the wolf is the stark family sigil.

I re-watched the first episode of season 1 earlier and when Jon found the direwolf pups that was mentioned so that was helpful in remembering some other things.

---

I re-watched the first episode of season 1 earlier and when Jon found the direwolf pups that was mentioned so that was helpful in remembering some other things.

 

In the prologue in the last book it's referenced by a Wildling as they're marching about. He says that Jon has the ability to warg and may not even see it yet. That's why an animal such as the Direwolf like Ghost is particular about him and follows him about. Like Rollerjag said. It's not mere coincidence that the sigil of Stark is the Direwolf. I think they have a strong connection to the powers beyond the Wall and that's where they've gained this ability. It's quite common amongst the Wildlings when you think about it. And since the Stark's are literally on the Wall and the border of The North and the rest of the common world. They literally have a foot on each side.

 

I think the scenes may depict the connection too. As soon as Jon was stabbed last year Ghost went crazy. He was fighting to escape his cage. And he was protective of Jon's corpse this entire season so far. It can't be too coincidental. It could very well be Jon trying to get back to his body. Remember back to Robb Stark's scene as well. I don't recall them showing this in the show. But his direwolf, Grey Wind, he felt something was off at the Frey's towers when they first arrived in the book. And his wolf DID NOT want to cross that bridge. Low in behold the wolf sensed Robb's demise and later on that night he was killed during the Red Wedding along with Grey Wind.

 

So far only four direwolves remain. Ghost, Nymeria (Arya's wolf who ran off), Shaggy Dog who should still be with Rickon by all accounts, and then Bran's wolf Summer.

 

GRRM throws you for a loop though with what exactly these wolves mean to the Stark's. Sansa's was killed off early by Ned because of Robert's request. She yet lives. And I already mentioned Robb's death with his wolf. So it could just be for writing material or it may have a deeper meaning.  

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Yeah, I expected more histrionics from Melisandre, instead we get a chest massage and a sad sigh. It was cool the way Ghost realized he was back even before Jon Snow opened his eyes.

 

I don't know if it was direction or editing, but several scenes were lacking. Balon Greyjoy's death and funeral, the Wildings turning the tide, Arya's redemption...they seemed flat. I like the story lines, but I'm not getting much depth.

As someone else pointed out the 1st half of this season is all about closing story lines.  I am still tuned in but thus far it has been forced.  The move from Martin's story line is having an adverse affect thus far.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

As someone else pointed out the 1st half of this season is all about closing story lines.  I am still tuned in but thus far it has been forced.  The move from Martin's story line is having an adverse affect thus far.

 

Well the Greyjoy plot line is still being inspired from the books.  Will be interesting to see how far they take it.

---

I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

GRRM throws you for a loop though with what exactly these wolves mean to the Stark's. Sansa's was killed off early by Ned because of Robert's request. She yet lives. And I already mentioned Robb's death with his wolf. So it could just be for writing material or it may have a deeper meaning.  

 

I must say I enjoy reading your take on most things, but this entire post was exceptional.

 

Even in Sansa's case, the death of Lady marked the beginning of the end of her fairy tale life/dreams so while not a literal death like Grey Wind/Robb, it's still a death of sorts. Nymeria running off mirrors Arya's running off to become a Faceless Man. So in essence, they've done the same thing. So I definitely think there's deeper meaning(s) at work.

---

<i>Behold man's final mad disgrace.</i>

<i>He chops his nose to spite his face.</i>

 

-Etrigan the Demon