Yes, because it's reasonable to tax everyone to pay for the public system and then force private industry to compete. 

We do it with schools.

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For profit healthcare works fine, we've had socialized medicine for longer than you've been alive.

Upon what model do your base your opinion that for profit healthcare works fine?

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Upon what model do your base your opinion that for profit healthcare works fine?

Yeah you guys seem to pay way more than everyone else for healthcare that isn't achieving good outcomes. Probably because people avoid seeing the doctor due to costs.


What I don't get is where all your tax goes? Seems more comes out of your pay than over here and we get healthcare included in that?

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So with my new job I'm able to get health care, however, it's not compliant with Obamacare meaning we may still be fined over $600 per adult at the end of the year. The only way to avoid this is to pay up for more expensive insurance that merely costs more but provides zero additional coverage. The difference in cost is right about the same amount as the fine.


 

In other words, I'm able to ensure myself medical coverage, but that's not good enough for the government who simply wants to steal an additional $600 per year per adult from my household for no reason whatsoever, It's called the Affordable Health Care Act, but for the most part the act has only increased hardships. Sure it grants subsidies to help pay for extremely expensive personal plans if you make close to the poverty level, but those subsidies don't even apply to work sponsored insurance plans. For those making well over the poverty level, there's absolutely nothing affordable about it.

 

It's more affordable and more accessible.  Just ask the president.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Healthcare. Pffft. What we need are more bombers, tanks, missles, battleships, radar evading cruisers that don't float, gunships...stuff like that so we can go in and kick butt like we did in Afghanistan,Iraq,

Simple..everyone go military. Then there's the VA that'll take care of health issues.

Not saying this ACA is perfect, but to not address healthcare and be the only civilized country to not have it, much less family time, is sad.

To spend the majority of our funds on military to police the world, and leave our own to be on their own is imo a disgrace.

Maybe Obama shouldn't have modeled it like Romneys plan. Nah. Even if it were a Reagan type plan, it was Obama and everything he does is wrong.

Another few months, and the misery will end when Trump/ Cruz take over. They'll fix everything.

Can't wait.

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Blakes Life Matters

Yeah you guys seem to pay way more than everyone else for healthcare that isn't achieving good outcomes. Probably because people avoid seeing the doctor due to costs.


What I don't get is where all your tax goes? Seems more comes out of your pay than over here and we get healthcare included in that?

 

As flsprtsgod pointed out, the pre-ACA system you are using as an example of what "you guys seem to pay" is far from a free market system. Medical costs in the US were heavily government controlled long before ACA.


 

Back before the government got involved in medicine, medical care in the US was inexpensive and much more responsive to the needs of the patient. Heck, we even had doctors coming to patients homes. Even today look at the price vs. time curve of un-insured medical care such as laser eye surgery or cosmetic surgery vs. insurance-controlled or government-controlled medical costs. And make no mistake, the insurance companies are 100% in bed with government. The ACA is a manifestation of that; it is mostly an expansion of the government-insurance partnership.


 

And if you push for single-payer (i.e. tax-funded) medical care, the US already has that in the Veterans Administration. You might want to look to see how well the US government ran health care in that case.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

...not address healthcare and be the only civilized country to not have it...

 

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but have you talked to people in England, and for that matter most other countries where healthcare is socialized, about how much they like their healthcare system?

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'02

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but have you talked to people in England, and for that matter most other countries where healthcare is socialized, about how much they like their healthcare system?

Brits love the NHS. Any scrapping of it would be political suicide...


Nobody in Australia or the UK wants to follow the US model... Maybe the very rich? I'm not sure I don't hang in that circle.

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http://www.businessinsider.com.au/an-ame...?r=US&IR=T


Here's an interesting take from an American on his NHS experience. The bit about old people complaining may be where you get your misinformation from Jags02. Should take a read maybe dispel a few myths...

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Brits love the NHS. Any scrapping of it would be political suicide...


Nobody in Australia or the UK wants to follow the US model... Maybe the very rich? I'm not sure I don't hang in that circle.

I don't know about the UK and austriala but I know parts of our family left Canada because of the socialized medicine.

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http://www.businessinsider.com.au/an-ame...?r=US&IR=T


Here's an interesting take from an American on his NHS experience. The bit about old people complaining may be where you get your misinformation from Jags02. Should take a read maybe dispel a few myths...

 

 

This is talking about waiting times and costs which granted are better, but I'm referring to the overall quality of their healthcare. I've talked to Brits with some rather disturbing stories about their previous hospital visits.

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'02

This is talking about waiting times and costs which granted are better, but I'm referring to the overall quality of their healthcare. I've talked to Brits with some rather disturbing stories about their previous hospital visits.

Again many Brits who have no comparison on healthcare dont quite realise how good they have it.

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I don't know about the UK and austriala but I know parts of our family left Canada because of the socialized medicine.

Was it because of socialised medicine or the fact that they didn't like the Canadian model? If you could pay less for better/ comparable care you would prefer the British system surely?

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Was it because of socialised medicine or the fact that they didn't like the Canadian model? If you could pay less for better/ comparable care you would prefer the British system surely?

Two stories I know from the family. One is probably before the modern Canadian system but it was an example of state ran healthcare. My grandfather being a protestant in a catholic province was told he would never pass the physical if he didn't switch churches. My dads uncle waited 6 months to get a consultation on his kidney, he died waiting for the approval to have his kidney examined and treated. I've been told by numerous family members there is sometimes month long waits for routine care.


Hell the va alone is enough for me to know stage ran medicine isn't a solution I want to any problem.

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How about a 2 tier system like Australia? Have the option of public and private...


Or do you like paying more for less? It seems to be more ideologically driven through. You have been trained well...

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How about a 2 tier system like Australia? Have the option of public and private...


Or do you like paying more for less? It seems to be more ideologically driven through. You have been trained well...

We already had that option for the poor and elderly.

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How about a 2 tier system like Australia? Have the option of public and private...


Or do you like paying more for less? It seems to be more ideologically driven through. You have been trained well...

It seems that those like you who depend on others to care for you are the well trained subservients.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Double.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

We do it with schools.

Yeah, that's working really well too.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It hasn't been my experience the prescription is cheaper if I'm paying cash. I'll give a personal example, when we had no insurance my wife had a thyroid problem, I paid the $150 for her visit, but when the doctor prescribed all these "test" to find the source of her problem it was going to cost north of $2,000. The visit she prescribed some medicine for the symptoms she was experiencing in the mean time, when I went to the pharmacy they told us the prescription was over $200 for a 30-day supply.


Now the why it cost so much that's a complex issue to which I don't claim to have the knowledge, I'm just saying in theory I'd love to say we don't need insurance for routine medicine but if that's the case we have to figure out why the cost our so far beyond the ability of the average consumer to pay.


Actually there is a system where at a mechanic shop I deal with something like the "insurance" company's it's when we have fleet accounts for national fleet managements. I end up billing them probably 2/3rds less than what an average consumer pays because they have negotiated prices in order for my company or any company to provide them with services. Now that might reflect in some of the cost that is passed onto everyone else which maybe that's why in my experience "Cash" customers without insurance are hit with such high cost in order for them to recover lower negotiated services provided to insured customers?


To me the insurance companies are the biggest problem, anytime you have a middle man be it the government or private parties cost go up across the board. That's why the idea of Obamacare drives me so crazy, instead of finding a way to create a system where we can eliminate or significantly reduce the roll of the middle man, we made it IMPOSSIBLE to cut out the middle man.


Imagine if everyone was required to hire a fleet management company before they brought me a car to fix. It would take twice as long to get anything done and now you're paying twice the amount of people to do the same job, the employees of the fleet company negotiating products and services and the employees of my company performing the product and services.

Well a certain group gasped at the idea of a single payer system insisting it was "socialism". A for-profit healthcare system is doing exactly what it's suppose to.

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