Perhaps there is confusion.  In a gay marriage, is there a "husband and wife"?  Serious question.

 

I worked with a lesbian that I would consider to be clearly the "husband" in that relationship.  She was more masculine than some of the guys that worked there.  She had short hair (almost like a crew cut), wore more masculine attire and her actions were more like that of a male.  Her partner on the other hand was clearly more feminine.  She is a very pretty girl, wears makeup, wears dresses/skirts (and is actually kind of hot).  Would she not be considered to be a "wife"?

 

Another example that I'll share is my brother.  Though he sometimes acts a bit like what I would call feminine, he dresses like any modern businessman would dress, that being conservative suits and ties for work, and casual men's dress in social situations.  His partner acts quite a bit more feminine, and wears dresses more like what most heterosexual men would call "gay".  I guess my point is, you wouldn't really know that my brother is gay, but his partner leaves no question in your mind.  So wouldn't you consider my brother to be the "husband" and his partner to be the "wife" in that relationship?

 

Once again, this is a serious question, not meant to be offensive in any way.

 

Perhaps I'll take this one since I'm actually gay and fee qualified to answer this appropriately, although I trust RJ would probably be able to give as good of an asnwer as I.

 

Although, I can only speak for myself, I'm pretty in touch with the rest of the gay mafia. So, here goes.....

 

I am not currently married, however, no, myself or my partner would not consider ourselves "husband" as that is typically applied to a male. She would be my wife and I would be her wife. There's sometimes a more masculine person in a gay relationship, but not always. You can have two feminine females, or males as a couple. Two masculine females or males in a couple or any variation of what society consideres feminine or masculine.

 

I would probably be considered the more masculine out of my relationship, however, most people wouldn't know that I am gay upon meeting me, however it would make no difference whether they did or didn't. I do have short hair though, so if that is the qualifier, there ya go.

 

"People", perhaps straight people, seem comfortable with having a "male/female" in a gay couple, but trust me that isn't always the case. Those are just the ones that you might recognize in a wal-mart. When I would go out with my GF, I don't think you would recognize us as a couple right away, unless you saw us canoodling or something.

 

What did you mean "Actually kind of hot". Is it strange that a lesbian could be hot? I happen to know tons of them. My baby mama (we adopted) and My best friend are absolutely drop dead gorgeous. I don't happen to think I'm a dog either, but whatever.

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Perhaps there is confusion.  In a gay marriage, is there a "husband and wife"?  Serious question.

 

I worked with a lesbian that I would consider to be clearly the "husband" in that relationship.  She was more masculine than some of the guys that worked there.  She had short hair (almost like a crew cut), wore more masculine attire and her actions were more like that of a male.  Her partner on the other hand was clearly more feminine.  She is a very pretty girl, wears makeup, wears dresses/skirts (and is actually kind of hot).  Would she not be considered to be a "wife"?

 

Another example that I'll share is my brother.  Though he sometimes acts a bit like what I would call feminine, he dresses like any modern businessman would dress, that being conservative suits and ties for work, and casual men's dress in social situations.  His partner acts quite a bit more feminine, and wears dresses more like what most heterosexual men would call "gay".  I guess my point is, you wouldn't really know that my brother is gay, but his partner leaves no question in your mind.  So wouldn't you consider my brother to be the "husband" and his partner to be the "wife" in that relationship?

 

Once again, this is a serious question, not meant to be offensive in any way.

It varies by relationship.  Some people use the term partner.  One of my best friends (she's almost like a sister to me) and her wife call each other "Wife".  My friend actually doesn't like the term 'partner' because partner can be totally platonic.  Our friends are pretty feminine, but they're also the type who'd never use gender roles to determine who did what in a relationship.  They consider themselves equals much like my wife and I consider each other equals (Well I consider her my better half, but we're still equal all things considered)  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

It varies by relationship.  Some people use the term partner.  One of my best friends (she's almost like a sister to me) and her wife call each other "Wife".  My friend actually doesn't like the term 'partner' because partner can be totally platonic.  Our friends are pretty feminine, but they're also the type who'd never use gender roles to determine who did what in a relationship.  They consider themselves equals much like my wife and I consider each other equals (Well I consider her my better half, but we're still equal all things considered)  

 

Exactly.

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I just want to type the word canoodling.

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Perhaps there is confusion.  In a gay marriage, is there a "husband and wife"?  Serious question.

Varies by couple. I would venture a guess that from a legal standpoint, two males are husbands and two females are wives. From the standpoint of each individual couple, it's up to them as to how they want to think of each other.

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I just want to type the word canoodling.

Thank god someone did.. Through I was gonna have to do it..

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I just want to type the word canoodling.

 

The first time I heard the word canoodling, it was used by The Greaseman.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Perhaps I'll take this one since I'm actually gay and fee qualified to answer this appropriately, although I trust RJ would probably be able to give as good of an asnwer as I.

 

Although, I can only speak for myself, I'm pretty in touch with the rest of the gay mafia. So, here goes.....

 

I am not currently married, however, no, myself or my partner would not consider ourselves "husband" as that is typically applied to a male. She would be my wife and I would be her wife. There's sometimes a more masculine person in a gay relationship, but not always. You can have two feminine females, or males as a couple. Two masculine females or males in a couple or any variation of what society consideres feminine or masculine.

 

I would probably be considered the more masculine out of my relationship, however, most people wouldn't know that I am gay upon meeting me, however it would make no difference whether they did or didn't. I do have short hair though, so if that is the qualifier, there ya go.

 

"People", perhaps straight people, seem comfortable with having a "male/female" in a gay couple, but trust me that isn't always the case. Those are just the ones that you might recognize in a wal-mart. When I would go out with my GF, I don't think you would recognize us as a couple right away, unless you saw us canoodling or something.

 

What did you mean "Actually kind of hot". Is it strange that a lesbian could be hot? I happen to know tons of them. My baby mama (we adopted) and My best friend are absolutely drop dead gorgeous. I don't happen to think I'm a dog either, but whatever.

 

Thank you for your answer, I was hoping that you would chime in regarding my question.

 

Regarding the first part in bold, this is my feeble attempt at humor.  So are you saying that RJ is gay?  Not that there is anything wrong with that (stupid reference to Seinfeld).

 

Regarding the second paragraph in bold, short hair is not a "qualifier", but when it's worn more towards a "male hairstyle" then yes it is an indicator.  I can't imagine a heterosexual female grooming herself in such a way (not saying that it's wrong).  Also, it's common for people to not know someone is gay when meeting them, both males and females.  However, it cannot be denied that there are certain instances where sexual preference is pretty much "known" when one meets a certain person.  There is such a thing as "acting gay" (more so on the male side), but also on the female side.

 

Regarding the third bold paragraph, I'll admit that that I do have a "stereotype" in mind, especially considering this particular girl (my co-worker).  I viewed my co-worker as "just another guy" and treated her as such.  We would laugh, joke (sometimes rather crude) and basically got along pretty good.  When I met her partner, she was a 180 between my "butch" co-worker and her partner.  Now of course, me being the "dirty old man" that I am, I scrutinized my co-worker's partner closely.  I would never consider my lesbian and "masculine" co-worker to be "hot", but after seeing her partner I thought to myself, "if I was 10 or 20 years younger, I most certainly would hit that".  It's not "strange" for me to think that a lesbian woman could be hot.

 

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

If gender is irrelevant when issuing marriage licenses, there is no longer relevance to the terms husband and wife. Both parties are spouses. This isn't a war on anything, nor is it a blow for political correctness. It's merely a paperwork matter, replacing outdated terminology with words that make sense.

So just write it that way from now on. They don't have to waste resources on the old legislation since no one is going to take the words for their actual meanings anymore. The USCC already set that precedent.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Sometimes a military spouse is not a wife; it's a husband.   So why should the law refer to "husband" or "wife" when under the law there is no difference?     This is the whole point of writing the laws in a gender-neutral way.   If the law refers to the "wife" what if the person is a husband and not a wife?  What then?   Is he out of luck because the law doesn't refer to husbands, only wives?  Why not call both husbands and wives "spouse?" 

In this case I was meaning that a military spouse doesn't like the word 'dependent' whether male or female. On most military paperwork the word dependent is used instead of spouse, husband or wife. And none of us like(d) it. And I personally don't like the idea of being a gender neutral spouse on some government papers when I am a female and a wife. I guess it's a personal thing for me. I guess it shouldn't be a big deal but I'm 43 years old and don't see the point. I'm at least halfway through my life and am set in my ways so...... I guess I'm an old fart and would prefer things to remain the same. Most old farts probably feel the same. 

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You are right, what you label someone matters. It matters to the two gay men that are married and don't consider either of them to be a "wife" and it matters to the two lesbians that don't consider either one of them to be the "husband".

Okay, so two men are husbands and two women are wives? So why change the words? They're already there. Unless I'm missing something, which is totally possible right now as it's been a LONG day.

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Are you really telling me that you don't understand why it should be changed, or have you just dug your heels in on the issue because you don't agree with why it would be necessary in the first place? I'm not trying to be facetious with my question either, I'm just trying to understand what your issue is with it being changed is, other than "because it's always been that way".

I really am saying I don't get why it should be changed. Reference the reply to the other reply you made. 

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So just write it that way from now on. They don't have to waste resources on the old legislation since no one is going to take the words for their actual meanings anymore. The USCC already set that precedent.

 

It's merely more efficient. Instead of having terms for partners in an opposite sex marriage and another term for partners in a same sex marriage, they have a word that accurately describes the participants regardless of the situation.

 

Despite your obvious distaste for the SCOTUS ruling, those considering marriage a union between a man and a women surely know which is which. The same-sex couple's situation has no effect on them, anyway.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Regarding the first part in bold, this is my feeble attempt at humor.  So are you saying that RJ is gay?  Not that there is anything wrong with that (stupid reference to Seinfeld).

 

I'm not gay, just disturbingly happy over nothing.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

So just write it that way from now on. They don't have to waste resources on the old legislation since no one is going to take the words for their actual meanings anymore. The USCC already set that precedent.

This.


And my final word on this is leave the words husband and wife and add the word spouse going forward. That would cover all the bases. I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over. If you want to discuss it with me, pm me. Honestly, I'm just tired.

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*sigh*

 

I get where they're going with this, and the logic isn't completely flawed or completely PC-based. That said, I doubt that anyone threatening the husband of a female President would get off on a technicality because of the way the law's written. If this Supreme Court has shown us anything lately, it's that it's more than happy to set precedents based upon the interpretation of a law rather than the text.

 

And even beyond that, don't we have better things to do than pay a private research firm millions of dollars to scour federal laws in search of the words "husband" and "wife", then re-write them and send them all back to Congress to be voted on?

 

Lois Capps' name on the bill doesn't surprise me. She's not the farthest left member of Congress by any stretch of the imagination, but she is the typical California liberal. I'd be curious to see who the other 23 names on the bill are, though.

That line of thinking is completely flawed and PC based.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

That line of thinking is completely flawed and PC based.

I touched on several different points. Which one was flawed and PC based?

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Perhaps I'll take this one since I'm actually gay and fee qualified to answer this appropriately, although I trust RJ would probably be able to give as good of an asnwer as I.

 

Although, I can only speak for myself, I'm pretty in touch with the rest of the gay mafia. So, here goes.....

 

I am not currently married, however, no, myself or my partner would not consider ourselves "husband" as that is typically applied to a male. She would be my wife and I would be her wife. There's sometimes a more masculine person in a gay relationship, but not always. You can have two feminine females, or males as a couple. Two masculine females or males in a couple or any variation of what society consideres feminine or masculine.

 

I would probably be considered the more masculine out of my relationship, however, most people wouldn't know that I am gay upon meeting me, however it would make no difference whether they did or didn't. I do have short hair though, so if that is the qualifier, there ya go.

 

"People", perhaps straight people, seem comfortable with having a "male/female" in a gay couple, but trust me that isn't always the case. Those are just the ones that you might recognize in a wal-mart. When I would go out with my GF, I don't think you would recognize us as a couple right away, unless you saw us canoodling or something.

 

What did you mean "Actually kind of hot". Is it strange that a lesbian could be hot? I happen to know tons of them. My baby mama (we adopted) and My best friend are absolutely drop dead gorgeous. I don't happen to think I'm a dog either, but whatever.

 

You also deal with stereotype here, with what was referred to in the post you quoted. Just because someone acts "masculine", it makes them the "husband" in the same-sex marriage?

 

What about in a opposite-sex marriage where the female works full-time and the dad is stay at home? Do you switch the term too? I've known plenty of marriages where the women "rule" the house". Do you switch the term in that case too because the mom is the more "dominant" personality in the household?

 

Of course not.

 

So why is this thinking somehow different when it comes to same-sex?

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You also deal with stereotype here, with what was referred to in the post you quoted. Just because someone acts "masculine", it makes them the "husband" in the same-sex marriage?

 

What about in a opposite-sex marriage where the female works full-time and the dad is stay at home? Do you switch the term too? I've known plenty of marriages where the women "rule" the house". Do you switch the term in that case too because the mom is the more "dominant" personality in the household?

 

Of course not.

 

So why is this thinking somehow different when it comes to same-sex?

I didn't say that at all and no. I never referred to myself or any gay person as a husband. I said we would call ourselves wives.

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You also deal with stereotype here, with what was referred to in the post you quoted. Just because someone acts "masculine", it makes them the "husband" in the same-sex marriage?

 

What about in a opposite-sex marriage where the female works full-time and the dad is stay at home? Do you switch the term too? I've known plenty of marriages where the women "rule" the house". Do you switch the term in that case too because the mom is the more "dominant" personality in the household?

 

Of course not.

 

So why is this thinking somehow different when it comes to same-sex?

Or are you talking about me agreeing that men are husbands and women are wives?! If that's the case, yes I believe that and so do you but you want to argue so go ahead.

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