It wasn't shot down when it went to the house.  It never went for a vote in the house.  Not even for debate. The Senate passed it 84-15, and the house refuses to do anything on it at all.  Boehner won't put it up for vote, citing the Hastert Rule (Majority of the Majority party must support a bill before he puts it up, though this informal 'rule' has been broken many times by many speakers.  Many by Hastert himself.) 

 

I would call that "shot down".  Boehner rejected it because there were provisions included that many of the establishment considered de-facto "amnesty" that they didn't like.

 

That's when Marco Rubio allegedly "changed his stance" or "flip flopped" regarding the legislation.  He understood and has talked about rather than trying to pass sweeping legislation, it would have to be done a little at a time.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I would call that "shot down".  Boehner rejected it because there were provisions included that many of the establishment considered de-facto "amnesty" that they didn't like.

 

That's when Marco Rubio allegedly "changed his stance" or "flip flopped" regarding the legislation.  He understood and has talked about rather than trying to pass sweeping legislation, it would have to be done a little at a time.

Can't fight the establishment. Stupid party politics.

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The problem was they never built the fence that was promised in 2006. Only a fool would believe the border would actually be secured before the legalization began. Based on that, it WAS an amnesty bill.

The 2006 fence was unrealistic from the start, and DHS knew it. They were only too happy to go back to Congress after the fact and say that the dual-layer fence they'd been instructed to build wasn't going to happen because of terrain and environmental concerns, get authorization to make it primarily a combination of single-layer sheet metal fencing and "vehicle barriers" (railroad track buried in the ground to keep vehicles from coming across) that are completely ineffective against pedestrians, then pocket the difference between what a dual-layer fence would have cost and what the "fence" they built actually did.

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The fence and vehicle barriers are very effective.  The double and triple layer of fencing that is located in areas where American city streets are only a short sprint away buy invaluable time for Border Patrol Agents.  The fencing is marginally effective in remote areas where there is an hour or more between Border Patrol cuts.  If you want better security between the ports, triple Border Patrol manpower from 20,000 to 60,000, build more federal detention facilities in the southwest, and prosecute everyone caught (in every Border Patrol sector).  It won't happen though because of $$$.

 

 One thing that lawmakers and policymakers see is that an area comes "under control" and then there is a surplus of agents and resources in the area.  They deem them unnecessary and move them, but the problem will eventually return without the resources and manpower.  They don't understand that just because there are diminishing returns that you can't attrit resources or you get exponential loss.  The reason there is no more traffic in an area is because you have all the resources there in the first place. 

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The fence and vehicle barriers are very effective.  The double and triple layer of fencing that is located in areas where American city streets are only a short sprint away buy invaluable time for Border Patrol Agents.  The fencing is marginally effective in remote areas where there is an hour or more between Border Patrol cuts.  If you want better security between the ports, triple Border Patrol manpower from 20,000 to 60,000, build more federal detention facilities in the southwest, and prosecute everyone caught (in every Border Patrol sector).  It won't happen though because of $$$.

This is a plan I could get behind.

 

As to the fence and vehicle barriers being effective, I beg to differ. Just glancing around the web will bring up stories of smugglers cutting through a railroad tie barrier, or using a simple ramp made out of 2x4's to defeat Normandy-style barriers. And the single-layer mat fencing? Let's put it this way: when I lived out in San Diego, I did a lot of hiking. Once in a while, I'd head out to Campo, to the southern end of the Pacific Crest Trail, park the car by the monument and walk the Border Patrol access road. Goes without saying that I had a lot of contact with the Border Patrol when I walked along a road designed solely for them to get from point A to point B quickly (although it was public land and perfectly legal). The fence out that way has LOTS of gaps, some of them a hundred feet or so wide. One of them had a very distinct tire trail in the scrub going right up onto the BP access road. I'm pretty sure the Border Patrol weren't going south into Mexico, given that they have a history of being shot at from the Mexican side, so one can only speculate that that "road" was used by vehicles coming north.

 

Side note, on one occasion, I decided to get a little ballsy, perhaps ballsier than I should have, and turned left across one of those gaps, then spent about five minutes taking pictures in Mexico before coming back across. There wasn't a Border Patrol truck in sight, no one approached me when I "illegally immigrated" back into America, and I wasn't stopped when driving out of town. Point being, between understaffing along the border and overstaffing at those stupid "interior checkpoints" that do nothing but waste everyone's time, the Border Patrol is stretched too thin, even in high traffic areas like southwestern California. Lots more agents are needed right down along the border itself, especially if American citizens are going to be conned into believing that that shoddy excuse for a "fence" is doing anything other than wasting money that should be going to putting more agents, both highly visible and hidden out of sight, within a couple miles of the border to gain better control of the situation down there.

 

Then, beyond that, you know, my belief that you should make it easier for guest workers to get permits to live here (and pay taxes), and make life much more difficult for people who are here illegally afterwards.

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This is a plan I could get behind.

 

As to the fence and vehicle barriers being effective, I beg to differ. Just glancing around the web will bring up stories of smugglers cutting through a railroad tie barrier, or using a simple ramp made out of 2x4's to defeat Normandy-style barriers. And the single-layer mat fencing? Let's put it this way: when I lived out in San Diego, I did a lot of hiking. Once in a while, I'd head out to Campo, to the southern end of the Pacific Crest Trail, park the car by the monument and walk the Border Patrol access road. Goes without saying that I had a lot of contact with the Border Patrol when I walked along a road designed solely for them to get from point A to point B quickly (although it was public land and perfectly legal). The fence out that way has LOTS of gaps, some of them a hundred feet or so wide. One of them had a very distinct tire trail in the scrub going right up onto the BP access road. I'm pretty sure the Border Patrol weren't going south into Mexico, given that they have a history of being shot at from the Mexican side, so one can only speculate that that "road" was used by vehicles coming north.

 

Side note, on one occasion, I decided to get a little ballsy, perhaps ballsier than I should have, and turned left across one of those gaps, then spent about five minutes taking pictures in Mexico before coming back across. There wasn't a Border Patrol truck in sight, no one approached me when I "illegally immigrated" back into America, and I wasn't stopped when driving out of town. Point being, between understaffing along the border and overstaffing at those stupid "interior checkpoints" that do nothing but waste everyone's time, the Border Patrol is stretched too thin, even in high traffic areas like southwestern California. Lots more agents are needed right down along the border itself, especially if American citizens are going to be conned into believing that that shoddy excuse for a "fence" is doing anything other than wasting money that should be going to putting more agents, both highly visible and hidden out of sight, within a couple miles of the border to gain better control of the situation down there.

 

Then, beyond that, you know, my belief that you should make it easier for guest workers to get permits to live here (and pay taxes), and make life much more difficult for people who are here illegally afterwards.

 

Of course the fence and vehicle barriers don't stop anyone from crossing.  They are barriers meant to buy Border Patrol Agents time and they are more effective the closer they get to cities.  It's merely a tool in the arsenal of Border Patrol Agents.  If it takes an alien 30 seconds to run into housing from Mexico, the agents are going to have a harder time as opposed to adding an extra minute or two.

 

In regards to your re-entry into the United States, I don't know the area where you were, but its very likely that you were detected, but the BPA figured out it was a tourist.  It's fairly simple to figure out what's good to chase and what's not for a Border Patrol Agent who works the area regularly.  You may have even been spotted on camera.

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Of course the fence and vehicle barriers don't stop anyone from crossing.  They are barriers meant to buy Border Patrol Agents time and they are more effective the closer they get to cities.  It's merely a tool in the arsenal of Border Patrol Agents.  If it takes an alien 30 seconds to run into housing from Mexico, the agents are going to have a harder time as opposed to adding an extra minute or two.

 

In regards to your re-entry into the United States, I don't know the area where you were, but its very likely that you were detected, but the BPA figured out it was a tourist.  It's fairly simple to figure out what's good to chase and what's not for a Border Patrol Agent who works the area regularly.  You may have even been spotted on camera.

I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on the fence. Over 50% of it is, imo, completely ineffective, and it does an equal disservice by creating the illusion that it's somehow a great help to the effort and precluding the need for more agents on the border itself.

 

It's entirely possible that I was identified and ignored, but the fact that I wasn't contacted or followed out of town struck me as odd. My first and second trips down there, I had some kind of contact with Border Patrol agents while hiking and/or driving back out of the area. On the third trip, when I actually crossed the border, spent several minutes on the Mexican side and returned, no one contacted me at all, no trucks followed me out of town or pulled me over, and when I got to the idiotic interior checkpoint before arriving home in San Diego, I wasn't even asked my citizenship, just waved through. The trips to the border were spaced out by a month or more (let's be honest, if I have to choose between walking along the Mexican border and walking up Mt. Soledad, I'm probably taking Mt. Soledad), so I doubt that agents recognized or remembered me. It just struck me as very odd that I was approached (or pulled over while leaving town) on my first two trips, and on my third trip, when I probably committed a federal offense, nobody was around to care.

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I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on the fence. Over 50% of it is, imo, completely ineffective, and it does an equal disservice by creating the illusion that it's somehow a great help to the effort and precluding the need for more agents on the border itself.

 

It's entirely possible that I was identified and ignored, but the fact that I wasn't contacted or followed out of town struck me as odd. My first and second trips down there, I had some kind of contact with Border Patrol agents while hiking and/or driving back out of the area. On the third trip, when I actually crossed the border, spent several minutes on the Mexican side and returned, no one contacted me at all, no trucks followed me out of town or pulled me over, and when I got to the idiotic interior checkpoint before arriving home in San Diego, I wasn't even asked my citizenship, just waved through. The trips to the border were spaced out by a month or more (let's be honest, if I have to choose between walking along the Mexican border and walking up Mt. Soledad, I'm probably taking Mt. Soledad), so I doubt that agents recognized or remembered me. It just struck me as very odd that I was approached (or pulled over while leaving town) on my first two trips, and on my third trip, when I probably committed a federal offense, nobody was around to care.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvZQn8UPEzc

 

Yuma was the busiest area in the United States for many years and saw as high as 200,000 apprehensions in a fiscal year, and that was with far less than 50% of those who entered actually getting apprehended.  Within just a few years it became one of the slowest areas in the United States with, I believe, less than 10,000 apprehensions in a fiscal year at one point.  How did they do it?  Three things: More agents, more prosecutions, and more fence.  The proof is in the pudding.

 

You very well may have gotten away if you were an alien, but like I said, Border Patrol Agents know a lot more about you than you think they do when you go to the border.  In all likelyhood you passed a high res camera, set off a seismic/magnetic/infrared device, set off a game cam, the Border Patrol Agent assigned to the area ran the plates on your vehicle while you were away from it and then ran the registered owner to that vehicle, and then they decided to spend their time elsewhere when they determined you were likely just a tourist. 

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You very well may have gotten away if you were an alien, but like I said, Border Patrol Agents know a lot more about you than you think they do when you go to the border.  In all likelyhood you passed a high res camera, set off a seismic/magnetic/infrared device, set off a game cam, the Border Patrol Agent assigned to the area ran the plates on your vehicle while you were away from it and then ran the registered owner to that vehicle, and then they decided to spend their time elsewhere when they determined you were likely just a tourist. 

If only we had more of this going on and less half-baked "fencing" going up.

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If only we had more of this going on and less half-baked "fencing" going up.

 

Like I said, Yuma would probably still be seeing in upwards of a half million illegal entries per year if it weren't for the half-baked fencing.

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Israel knows how to build a border fence, they have one that's very effective. We should model their example..............

 

 

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Instead of a sign that says "Do Not Disturb" I need one that says "Already Disturbed Proceed With Caution."

Israel knows how to build a border fence, they have one that's very effective. We should model their example..............

I don't know how realistic that would be to do on our southern border. We just have I address the why, turn off all welfare for illegals, refuse them access to public health, education and employment. Change the tax code to a consumption tax and immigration issues are a thing of the past.

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Israel knows how to build a border fence, they have one that's very effective. We should model their example..............

We already use better than this. That would be a downgrade to some areas.

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Israel knows how to build a border fence, they have one that's very effective. We should model their example..............

 

 

 

Some other country managed to build a barrier over 2000 miles long through mountains and forests. They did it all without modern construction equipment. The US is pretty sad if we can't even build a fence.


 

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Some other country managed to build a barrier over 2000 miles long through mountains and forests. They did it all without modern construction equipment. The US is pretty sad if we can't even build a fence.


 

Sure they did.  And it cost 1 million lives, and took 200 years to build.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Sure they did. And it cost 1 million lives, and took 200 years to build.

Let's get started!

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Let's get started!

No!

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