It's a commonly held position. Essentially because the colts have been good enough to make Luck's efforts possible he is recognized for it, while Bortles has mostly labored for a team that hasn't managed to hold opponents to less than 412 points on a season since 2011.

 

We'll see if Gus can manage to show himself worthy of the roster in 2016. I have my doubts, but the talent is there, the defense should be significantly better than it was in 2015, and if it's not 100+ points better then Gus needs to be shown the door before any more years of Bortles time in the league are wasted.

 

It's not just that... Although it hasn't happened a lot recently, it's seeing all the games where Luck willed his team to a win when they seemed content on getting skulldrug. It wasn't just the Colts being good. They weren't good. He picked them up out of the dirt and carried them.

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It's not just that... Although it hasn't happened a lot recently, it's seeing all the games where Luck willed his team to a win when they seemed content on getting skulldrug. It wasn't just the Colts being good. They weren't good. He picked them up out of the dirt and carried them.

 

Wait a minute... who's reading these posts to you?!

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

It's not just that... Although it hasn't happened a lot recently, it's seeing all the games where Luck willed his team to a win when they seemed content on getting skulldrug. It wasn't just the Colts being good. They weren't good. He picked them up out of the dirt and carried them.

 

Not sure what you think I was saying, but I didn't say Luck isn't a good qb or anything. I think he is, I'm just not convinced he's on the God under center some do.

 

Still, you think if the colts defense had allowed 450 points in 2013 instead of 336 that the colts would have still won 11 games? Because that's what it seems you're saying in response to me. I say the colts team has been good enough for Luck to have the level of success he has, and your response is that the colts suck. Well they sure don't suck like the Jaguars and titans have for the last few years, that much is for sure.

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Let me try to address this one point at a time.

 

Argument 1: Luck was a sure-fire can't miss prospect: Luck set a rookie passing record and got better each of his first three years -- advancing further into the playoffs each year. The fact that he set numerous league and franchise records does not factor into your analysis? He should be further along now after having the best three year start of any QB in league history? How so. I think he has shown that he is a can't miss prospect.

 

Argument 2: Luck didn't have a depleted roster: I would argue that Luck did have a depleted roster. As stated in my last post, the Colts relied heavily on rookies on offense and relied on Mathis and Bethea to lead the defense. Everyone else, including an old and ineffective Freeney in a new system was ineffective.

 

Arguement 3: The Colts tanked: No they didn't tank. Everyone lost their jobs -- the coaches, the GM and the players -- there was no reason to tank. They just ended up with the #1 draft at the right time. Everyone was saying that if you take Manning out of the Colts lineup, they would be a horrible team, and they were right. They had not been drafting well and paying aging players to stick around, depleting the team of real talent.

 

What is Bortles' record against non AFCS opponents? Or for that matter, what is his record against AFCS opponents?

 

(I'm not here to 'hate' but if we are comparing the two, we have to have an even playing field, right? And we have to allow people to have a differing opinion, as long as it can be argued logically. I state this because another poster told me to leave the forum since my views did not agree with his.) I hope that it's okay for me to provide a different opinion on things without coming off as argumentative.

Passing records are made to be broken these days. 10 QBs come close to breaking records every season. Luck was the most pro-ready QB to come out of a draft in awhile... But I don't really see how he's gotten better. Yes, his stats increased, as they should. His team did well, as it should (they were great before the one tanking season). Now 4 years in, the team around him is probably worse NOW than it was THEN. Hence, his regression this past season, coupled with an injury.

He hasn't done any more in his 3 seasons than any other QB, by comparison to timeframe and era. In 2 or 3 years we'll be talking about Winston topping those 3 year numbers. Ebb and flow of the NFL and the want for more offense.

I'd argue no one had a more depleted roster than the Jaguars during Bortles' rookie campaign.

 

oh... and yeah... they didn't "Tank" but they tanked.

Anytime you trot out Curtis Painter, despite being really bad, you're tanking.

 

BTW... who all lost their jobs? I'm betting many, or most, are still working within the NFL in some office or coaching tree somewhere?

 

 

I'm not here to hate at all either. If you were to build a team TODAY, I even said Luck should get the nod. But you seemed perturbed by the notion that Luck isn't the chosen one. He was lauded as can't miss. And in year 4, he was missing all over the place.

 

Give me a break lol.

 

Bortles in year 3 will be better than Luck in year 5.

 

Bank on it.

 

 

someone link that awesome thread someone made with a lot of work put in comparing Luck vs Bortles.

Man it was a good read

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http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/top...es+%2Bluck


here it is... looks like it wasn't finished

 

-eh oh well-

 

I like the comps though... just sayin.

 

If BB5 progresses half as well as Luck did during his early years...

well... Luck's a schmuck lol

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http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/top...es+%2Bluck


here it is... looks like it wasn't finished

 

-eh oh well-

 

I like the comps though... just sayin.

 

If BB5 progresses half as well as Luck did during his early years...

well... Luck's a schmuck lol

 

The perceptions about Luck are different because the colts weren't horrifically bad everywhere but QB and WR like the Jaguars have been, and that's what has made all of the difference.

 

Even psychop, a guy with no skin in the game didn't have a retort when faced with the fact that the Jaguars outside of the passing game are horrifically bad. I think a lot of it is coaching, but either way it can't be denied.

 

GMs talk about Luck having to win every game by outscoring his opponents, it's almost as if these guys don't even watch the games or even look at the stats. Luck's been good, but he's also been much more helped by the rest of his team compared to Bortles so far.

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I didn't respond because I didn't care. The Jaguars were the worst team? Sure. Cool, whatever. It doesn't change anything for me and why I would lean toward Luck on this. He plays the last five minutes like he's never going to get to play football again. I'm not sure he's even as skilled as Bortles right now, but I'll take his leadership qualities. In no way do I contend that Bortles is a bad QB or anything though. Still a great player to build around.

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ore-injury

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I didn't respond because I didn't care. The Jaguars were the worst team? Sure. Cool, whatever. It doesn't change anything for me and why I would lean toward Luck on this. He plays the last five minutes like he's never going to get to play football again. I'm not sure he's even as skilled as Bortles right now, but I'll take his leadership qualities. In no way do I contend that Bortles is a bad QB or anything though. Still a great player to build around.

 

Yes yes, you just feel a certain way, it's not based on anything empirical. You don't watch Luck or Bortles play, you don't pay attention to the stats, etc. If you feel like he'd still win 11 games if his defense gave up an extra TD every game then I'd say you're not realistic, but it's purely counter-factual and thinking about what would happen, not what has happened.

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I don't just feel a certain way. I've watched them play and I've looked at the stats. You're trying to blame the Jags' lack of success purely on the defense. What about time of possession? How many of those game were decided by seven points or less? How many games were the Jags in it until the end but came up short?

 

Through their first two seasons, Luck had eight fourth quarter comebacks and Bortles has had four. I'm not saying this to diminish Bortles skills-wise or anything like that. I'm just saying I give an edge to a QB who rises up in those situations and rallies his team. I give the edge to Luck based on leadership.

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I don't just feel a certain way. I've watched them play and I've looked at the stats. You're trying to blame the Jags' lack of success purely on the defense. What about time of possession? How many of those game were decided by seven points or less? How many games were the Jags in it until the end but came up short?

 

Through their first two seasons, Luck had eight fourth quarter comebacks and Bortles has had four. I'm not saying this to diminish Bortles skills-wise or anything like that. I'm just saying I give an edge to a QB who rises up in those situations and rallies his team. I give the edge to Luck based on leadership.

 

An interesting thing was that Luck in his second season had one more fourth quarter come from behind win than Bortles had in his second season. Would have been four to four if Myers could have hit one of his kicks.

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I don't want to go position by position but the Texans 3rd ranked defense appears to be completely underrated in almost all of the defensive predictions, particularly Whitney Mercilus. 

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.