So we should fully deploy the badger strategy and not practice for fear we might have players dinged.  For that matter, let's call the league and forfeit the season so we don't jeopardize anyone by playing games. 

 

Stop trying to make yourself look cool by misrepresenting my point.  I've made it pretty clear that we're talking about rookie mini-camp.

 

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That is directly from Dolphins beat writers on the scene.

 

 

Yeah, I read the same article you did.  The thing is the article didn't indicate what drills the draft picks were held out of for individual work with their position coaches.  It did indicate that some of those draft picks were participating in drills, so that kind of throws a wrench into your desire to see a more estrogenized practice regimen in football.  Maybe you should take up something a little more to your liking?  Croquet seems to be free of injuries.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Stop trying to make yourself look cool by misrepresenting my point.  I've made it pretty clear that we're talking about rookie mini-camp.

 

 

It starts there.  If another draft pick goes down in an OTA or training camp, your desire to wimpify the NFL will expand to those venues as well.  I have no doubt about that.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

If history repeats itself we have a lot more injuries coming so it won't just be one player. Just be prepared!

 

This actually favors the idea of holding out draft picks from certain drills in rookie mini-camp.  Injuries are already a certainty, so there is no reason to increase the risk in a meaningless mini-camp.

 

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It starts there.  If another draft pick goes down in an OTA or training camp, your desire to wimpify the NFL will expand to those venues as well.  I have no doubt about that.

 

That's like me saying I have NO DOUBT you wish to increase the intensity every practice so we can be more manly.

 

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Yeah, I read the same article you did.  The thing is the article didn't indicate what drills the draft picks were held out of for individual work with their position coaches.  It did indicate that some of those draft picks were participating in drills, so that kind of throws a wrench into your desire to see a more estrogenized practice regimen in football.  Maybe you should take up something a little more to your liking?  Croquet seems to be free of injuries.

 

I didn't read an article.  It was confirmed from somebody I know who follows the team extremely closely and wouldn't make stuff up just for fun.  They were held out of 11 on 11, that's all.  It makes sense to me.  If you're not for it, GOOD FOR YOU.  There is no need for you to keep quoting my posts with some straw man argument and more lame jokes.

 

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I think any pick in the first 3 sounds is highly valued. Obviously the earlier the pick, the more the franchise is probably depending on them to make an impact.


I like the Dolphins idea of treating the draft picks differently in mini-camp. The early guys especially have already secured a roster spot. There is no need to have your prized pass rusher trying to beat a right tackle around the edge in 11 on 11 in rookie mini camp.

But if you follow your suggestions to their conclusion, then you may actually put more of your players at risk.

 

Let's agree for the moment that these drills put the players at unnecessary risk of injury so let's eliminate them....at least for the highly valued draft picks.

 

But then let's also remember players get injured simply lifting weights and working out.  Michael Cheever, who quite possibly could have gone down as the best C in Jaguars history, hurt his back lifting weights, and his career was ended immediately.  So to further minimize risk to highly valued players let's stop these activities too...all the way until training camp.

 

So now you have a bunch of guys nowhere near football shape, going against the guys "going nuts" up until training camp.  You have guys not in football shape going up against guys from other teams who are in scrimmages and preseason games.

 

You don't think that would actually increase the risk of injury for the very same people you are trying to protect?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

But if you follow your suggestions to their conclusion, then you may actually put more of your players at risk.

 

Let's agree for the moment that these drills put the players at unnecessary risk of injury so let's eliminate them....at least for the highly valued draft picks.

 

But then let's also remember players get injured simply lifting weights and working out.  Michael Cheever, who quite possibly could have gone down as the best C in Jaguars history, hurt his back lifting weights, and his career was ended immediately.  So to further minimize risk to highly valued players let's stop these activities too...all the way until training camp.

 

So now you have a bunch of guys nowhere near football shape, going against the guys "going nuts" up until training camp.  You have guys not in football shape going up against guys from other teams who are in scrimmages and preseason games.

 

You don't think that would actually increase the risk of injury for the very same people you are trying to protect?

 

The difference is lifting weights is absolutely necessary for the success of these athletes.  Rookie mini-camp is not.  Doing away with weight-lifting is not a logical step to take.  I think the fact that other teams hold out their draft picks from the more intense scrimmage sessions in the mini-camp is proof enough that this isn't some NEW crackpot idea I'm bringing up.

 

The activity done in rookie mini-camp is irrelevant to getting in football shape since it's only a few days and its long before training camp even starts.

 

I like the idea of mini-camp being more for mental repetitions instead of trying to prove your physicality.  Imo Fowler was obviously trying to do too much, which I understand.

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The difference is lifting weights is absolutely necessary for the success of these athletes.  Rookie mini-camp is not.  Doing away with weight-lifting is not a logical step to take.  I think the fact that other teams hold out their draft picks from the more intense scrimmage sessions in the mini-camp is proof enough that this isn't some NEW crackpot idea I'm bringing up.

 

The activity done in rookie mini-camp is irrelevant to getting in football shape since it's only a few days and its long before training camp even starts.

Then why do teams have rookie minicamps at all?  If there is no value in them whatsoever, why would teams invest the time planning and running them?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Then why do teams have rookie minicamps at all?  If there is no value in them whatsoever, why would teams invest the time planning and running them?

 

To give the players a taste of the practice facility.  To get a quick look at the players.  However, it should primarily be to get a look at the players you aren't sure belong on the team.  The draft picks are certainly going to be on the team with the exception maybe of a couple late round picks.  Fowler is not a guy who has something to prove in a mini-camp.  Some guy who is a UDFA does.

 

Bottom line, there is nothing Fowler stands to gain from going 100% in a pass rushing drill this far out from the season.  He has a whole training camp and preseason to do that.  Therefore, I see it as an unnecessary risk.

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To give the players a taste of the practice facility.  To get a quick look at the players.  However, it should primarily be to get a look at the players you aren't sure belong on the team.  The draft picks are certainly going to be on the team with the exception maybe of a couple late round picks.  Fowler is not a guy who has something to prove in a mini-camp.  Some guy who is a UDFA does.

 

Bottom line, there is nothing Fowler stands to gain from going 100% in a pass rushing drill this far out from the season.  He has a whole training camp and preseason to do that.  Therefore, I see it as an unnecessary risk.

But a simple tour of the facility would accomplish the same thing.

 

But teams don't stop at simple facility tours, even for highly valued players they brought in for individual workouts about a month or two earlier.

 

Even with that, teams want to "play with their new toys."

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

So it's 'better' to get hurt in training camp or OTAs than it is to get hurt in rookie mini-camp.


Makes perfect sense to me.

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But a simple tour of the facility would accomplish the same thing.

 

But teams don't stop at simple facility tours, even for highly valued players they brought in for individual workouts about a month or two earlier.

 

Even with that, teams want to "play with their new toys."

 

I mean, they want to get a look at the players in action.  However, that should be primarily for undrafted guys.  Like I said, somebody like Fowler is almost guaranteed to get significant playing time already.  Mini-camp for him should be 80% mental and 20% physical. 

 

When they do these no-pad practices, the linemen still play almost as if they have pads on.  It's only natural.  That's something that should be avoided.

 


 

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The difference is lifting weights is absolutely necessary for the success of these athletes.  Rookie mini-camp is not.  Doing away with weight-lifting is not a logical step to take.  I think the fact that other teams hold out their draft picks from the more intense scrimmage sessions in the mini-camp is proof enough that this isn't some NEW crackpot idea I'm bringing up.

 

The activity done in rookie mini-camp is irrelevant to getting in football shape since it's only a few days and its long before training camp even starts.

 

I like the idea of mini-camp being more for mental repetitions instead of trying to prove your physicality.  Imo Fowler was obviously trying to do too much, which I understand.

Lets just make training camp a bunch of mental repetitions too.  Seems logical.  As long as they're thinking about it, that should be good enough to win.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I mean, they want to get a look at the players in action.  However, that should be primarily for undrafted guys.  Like I said, somebody like Fowler is almost guaranteed to get significant playing time already.  Mini-camp for him should be 80% mental and 20% physical. 

 

When they do these no-pad practices, the linemen still play almost as if they have pads on.  It's only natural.  That's something that should be avoided.

Why risk the undrafted?  Isn't that discriminatory? 

 

Players need time on the field to learn a new system and to commit to muscle memory the things that will make them more effective on the field when it matters. 

 

Using your logic, anything that you deem meaningless is worth avoiding.  If teams or players thought these things were meaningless, they would have negotiated them out of the CBA.  Apparently players and teams see value.

 

What's next after we ditch putting players on the field for practices?  Scrap the preseason because those games are meaningless?  Players get hurt there too ya know. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

So it's 'better' to get hurt in training camp or OTAs than it is to get hurt in rookie mini-camp.


Makes perfect sense to me.

 

Is that all you got out of this?  It's obviously the same, and that's not the point at all.  You limit your exposure to situations where there is an injury risk and you are less likely to get injured.

 

It's the same reason why contracts have clauses where players cant ride a motorcycle.  They can still get hurt in a car accident, but that doesn't mean adding the extra risk of riding a motorcycle is something that cant be avoided.

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So it's 'better' to get hurt in training camp or OTAs than it is to get hurt in rookie mini-camp.


Makes perfect sense to me.

It appears badger has a value chart for what is an acceptable activity for injury and what is not. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Is that all you got out of this?  It's obviously the same, and that's not the point at all.  You limit your exposure to situations where there is an injury risk and you are less likely to get injured.

 

It's the same reason why contracts have clauses where players cant ride a motorcycle.  They can still get hurt in a car accident, but that doesn't mean adding the extra risk of riding a motorcycle is something that can be avoided.

So the players should have clauses incorporated into their contracts saying they can't practice because they might get hurt.  Then what?  Games? 

 

This is such an idiotic argument.  If we went back and looked at last years rookie mini-camp, I'm fairly certain you weren't going all Oprah Winfrey on the board. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

That's like me saying I have NO DOUBT you wish to increase the intensity every practice so we can be more manly.

 

Well, we know where you stand on more manly practices.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I didn't read an article.  It was confirmed from somebody I know who follows the team extremely closely and wouldn't make stuff up just for fun.  They were held out of 11 on 11, that's all.  It makes sense to me.  If you're not for it, GOOD FOR YOU.  There is no need for you to keep quoting my posts with some straw man argument and more lame jokes.

 

So you didn't even read the stinking article?  Classic.

 

The article didn't indicate which drills they were held out of, or even which players were held out.  Maybe you should have read it.  It did indicate that the same draft picks participated in team drills and even gave a little critique of how they looked.  

 

I'm curious.  What's the difference if it is 11x11, 9x7, 7x7, or even 1 on 1?  Do players slack off when they're not in 11x11 drills?  Apparently to you they must.  Would it have been okay if Fowler was injured in a 1x1 drill with his coach?  That would have been fine using your risk metric?

 

I've had stories confirmed by people I know who follow the team closely too.  They told me several times that they had confirmation that Cowher was in town shopping for a house because the Jags were preparing to hire him as the next head coach.  It's amazing how accurate those close followers can be.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.