It's not attacked nearly as viciously as Food Stamps are. Keep in mind that around half of the able bodies recipients on Food Stamps are Working. And around 80% have recently had a job, or get a job not long after being on food stamps.


Also keep in mind that the average individual only gets $133 per participant. People say that they're lazy, but would you quit your job for $133/month? Or even $200/month? People love to point out the Beach Bum guy, but he's someone who's mooching off his friends and family and anyone willing to give him anything. He's certainly not the typical food stamp recipient.


People say "Get a job!" Great idea. If only our economy were... you know healthy enough where there weren't several people who plain gave up looking for work. Then you have those who do work, and still can't afford food.


I'm sure there'll be anecdotal evidence of food stamp abuse of people they know being lazy. And I'm sure it's true. Some people are lazy. But given that 80% of working age able adults either worked within a year before receiving food stamps, or a year after, I'd say that's not very representative of the majority at all. I mean our neighbor fired shots at our house one time. Is that representative of most gun owners? You certainly hear about a lot of bad gun owners on the news too.

A few years back I did a study on welfare abuse for the state of California. About 5 percent of those on food stamps abuse it... I don't call that wide spread in any sense of the word.

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The voucher program just let's me as the parent select what school my tax dollars support. As it is I pay taxes for public school and then turn around and pay tuition for my kids to go to private school. I should at least have the choice of opting out of funding the public school system if I'm never going to use it.


I don't advocate government paying for private schools that would give them authority to chancre curriculum. I just want to be able to opt out of paying for public school so I can use MY money to pay for My kids education. It wouldn't be hard to do figure out what percent of my property taxes goes to the doe and give me that back at the end of the year. The public education system is a joke I'd never send them to a government brainwashing institutions.

 

And people without kids would just like to opt out of paying for public school so they can use their money on paying for whatever they want.


Guess we'd have a really hard time funding public schools then, huh?  


Why should you get to avoid paying for public schools you don't use, but those without kids don't?  


The public education system isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.  And I'd never send my kids to a religious brainwashing institute personally.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

No to a school choice program.


School Choice sounds like a good idea.  The problem is, it simply doesn't work.  Vouchers haven't proven to improve academic performance in the areas where they've been used.  It's basically nothing more than subsidizing private schools.  You also have many parents who won't choose schools based on academics, but based on religion or political beliefs.  Vouchers don't also really increase 'choice' because ultimately it's up to the private schools if they want to admit students or not.  You'll also have for-profit schools that put more money into marketing than education.  Much like we have with the college system.  In fact much of the student debt? Is owed to For-profit colleges.  And you know what else?  Those who attend for-profit colleges are also among the hardest places to get employment from afterwards.  


Not to mention it opens up more government control of the private schools, something I'm sure most conservatives wouldn't want.  And I wouldn't blame them.  


Of course Obama sends his kids to Private School.  Most politicians do.  A lot of wealthy people do in fact.  Personally I'd never send my kids to a private school, and I know others who feel the same.  Some of whom are well off.  That's why we'll probably never see much fixed in the way of public schools.  Politicians don't care because it doesn't effect them except when it comes to the polls.


In fact Obama sends his kids to a school that costs $29,000/year.  So I don't think Vouchers are really going to give everyone that 'equal opportunity' to send their kids to those schools.  And the schools themselves, again, do not have to accept students they don't want. 

Also, how is the mother on food stamps supposed to feed her child that's getting education choice?  Helping lift them out of poverty?  After several years, maybe.  Only once again, that's assuming that her child is accepted into a private school, and assuming that the voucher actually ends up improving their academics.  And then you have to have her pay for the other stuff that vouchers don't cover.


Wages have stagnated.  That's the real problem.  One that won't be addressed.  Trade deals like Obamatrade and NAFTA have not done anything to help matters, and in fact may have made them worse.  (Well Obamatrade would make things worse, so far it's not enacted yet) Our Middle Class used to be something to behold.  Now it's nowhere near that.  We need to return to a healthy middle class, rather than the weak middle class we have today.

 

First off, I can understand your opinion regarding school choice, but I must disagree with you.

 

In the first bold part of your statement that you made, this report from NPR seems to contradict your claims.

 

Regarding the second bold part of your statement, that's part of what "choice" is all about.  I personally attended both public High School as well as studied at a Catholic Seminary High School in my youth.  I know without a doubt that I learned far more in the catholic school than I did in public school.

 

Finally, I am all for helping the mother feed herself and her child.  I never said "do away" with food stamps, I said that the way the problem is usually handled is by throwing more money at it in the form of food stamps/welfare.  This usually comes with the call to "raise taxes on the rich because they don't pay their 'fair share'".  The fundamental problem is not addressed.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

A few years back I did a study on welfare abuse for the state of California. About 5 percent of those on food stamps abuse it... I don't call that wide spread in any sense of the word.

 

I would be curious to have a look at your findings.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

And people without kids would just like to opt out of paying for public school so they can use their money on paying for whatever they want.


Guess we'd have a really hard time funding public schools then, huh?


Why should you get to avoid paying for public schools you don't use, but those without kids don't?


The public education system isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be. And I'd never send my kids to a religious brainwashing institute personally.

And there's the difference you are not forced by government to pay for my religious brainwashing institution.

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A few years back I did a study on welfare abuse for the state of California. About 5 percent of those on food stamps abuse it... I don't call that wide spread in any sense of the word.

Food stamps are not abused widely but the program is poorly managed and counter productive. If they ran it more like WIC it would be twice as cost effective and help achieve the purpose of providing nutrition for the poor.

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Would you (anyone) classify buying tobacco or alcohol with food stamps as abuse?

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Food stamps are not abused widely but the program is poorly managed and counter productive. If they ran it more like WIC it would be twice as cost effective and help achieve the purpose of providing nutrition for the poor.

 

Here is where we can agree on something.  Provide the "essentials" rather than provide a "blank check" that could be used to purchase anything from lobster to enabling people to draw cash at liquor stores or strip clubs.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Would you (anyone) classify buying tobacco or alcohol with food stamps as abuse?

 

Personally, yes I consider that an abuse.  Food stamps are supposed to provide... FOOD.  Tobacco and alcohol are a "luxury".

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

And people without kids would just like to opt out of paying for public school so they can use their money on paying for whatever they want.


Guess we'd have a really hard time funding public schools then, huh?  


Why should you get to avoid paying for public schools you don't use, but those without kids don't?  


The public education system isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.  And I'd never send my kids to a religious brainwashing institute personally.

 

Nobody is forcing you to send your kids anywhere.  That's the beauty of America.  But, to say the public education system isn't nearly as bad as it's been made out to be is pretty subjective.  One only needs to look at where we rank in education against every other nation on the planet.  We spend more per capita on education than any other country, and the country is ranked 28th. 

 

You may not like the idea of giving people tax credits to send kids to the school of their choice, but the results of public vs. private education, and how the students stack up against each other make it clear that the current system is broken.  It's a bloated, top heavy system that is more focused on teaching to a test than it is in teaching kids skills that will matter in life.  There's zero critical thinking going on in public education today because there's simply not time. 

 

A good voucher system would force the government indoctrination centers into competing with private schools to get those education dollars.  By forcing them to compete, the kids win, not the teacher unions or bureaucracy at the government level.  Education should always be about the kids and what's best for them, but that's absolutely not the case with the current structure. Your beloved tax dollars would still be collected from all.  It'll just be used more efficiently than the current structure. 

 

Those religious brainwashing institutes (and other private schools that have nothing to do with religious affiliation) you're taunting are lapping public education facilities around the country, and they're doing it for less money per student than what your tax dollars are funding.  If you're satisfied with the current state of affairs in education, more power to you.  We're spending, on average, about $10,600 per student in the public school systems in this country as of 2014.  There are parochial schools who are getting national recognition for quality education who are providing a better education for thousands less per student.  There are 2 national blue ribbon schools (a designation that comes directly from the department of education in DC) that are private.  One is parochial, and one is simply a private school.  Both provide tuition levels that are significantly less per student than what we're paying on average nationally. 

 

I would be curious to have a look at your findings.

 

Ditto.

 

Would you (anyone) classify buying tobacco or alcohol with food stamps as abuse?

 

Yes.

 

This is directly from DCF's handbook for the state of Florida, and this is pretty much standard in all 57 states.

 

Foods You Can Buy With Food Assistance Benefits


Households can use food assistance benefits to buy:

• Breads and cereals

• Fruits and vegetables

• Meats, fish, and poultry

• Dairy products and

• Seeds and plants to grow and produce food for the household to eat


Households cannot use food assistance benefits to buy:

• Beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes, or tobacco

• Pet food, soaps, paper products, or household supplies

• Vitamins and other medicines

• Food that will be eaten in the store and

• Hot foods


Stores are not allowed to give cash to individuals who receive food assistance benefits, for the return of empty bottles and cans that contained food purchased with food assistance benefits.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I'll leave this here for those interested:


http://hepg.org/hel-home/issues/31_1/hel...public-sch

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Would you (anyone) classify buying tobacco or alcohol with food stamps as abuse?

Yes and your not allowed to purchase any of that with the snap accounts. Now some people also get cash assistance while unemployed and that gets loaded on the same EBT cards as the snap benefits. As far as I know there isn't any restrictions on what the cash assistance can be used for so that's usually what's happening when you see a guy at the liquor store getting cash back or using his EBT card.


That said I think cash assistance is a total fraud paying people not to work is stupid.

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Yes and your not allowed to purchase any of that with the snap accounts. Now some people also get cash assistance while unemployed and that gets loaded on the same EBT cards as the snap benefits. As far as I know there isn't any restrictions on what the cash assistance can be used for so that's usually what's happening when you see a guy at the liquor store getting cash back or using his EBT card.


That said I think cash assistance is a total fraud paying people not to work is stupid.

I don't think there's restrictions on EBT cards for cash assistance.  I think partly because child support sometimes goes on there for some reason.  (Like when a father pays child support, not the state)

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I don't think there's restrictions on EBT cards for cash assistance.  I think partly because child support sometimes goes on there for some reason.  (Like when a father pays child support, not the state)

 

So is that a good thing or a bad thing?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the EBT system supposed to be about food?

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I'll leave this here for those interested:

http://hepg.org/hel-home/issues/31_1/hel...public-sch

 

Not really a fair analysis from what I read (and I'll admit that I had to "skim" parts of this paper).

 

From what I understand, there was "cherry picking" involved in the study and selected certain grades.  I'll read it more extensively tomorrow, but to me this doesn't "prove" that public schools are better than private schools.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Which welfare are you talking about?

All of it.  If you are capable of working then you should work...period!  Sitting on your duff and collecting subsidies is a slap in the face of every working American.  I say again, I have no problem with assisting people out of poverty.  Welfare for life does not do that.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

A few years back I did a study on welfare abuse for the state of California. About 5 percent of those on food stamps abuse it... I don't call that wide spread in any sense of the word.

Sorry I call BS on your statement.  Give me the data you researched and we can talk.  A trip to any grocery store will refute that statement

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

So is that a good thing or a bad thing? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the EBT system supposed to be about food?

No your getting confused the EBT is the electronic balance transfer card issued by the Feds it loads several programs one of them Being the snap ( food stamps) program. But like TED said it's also used for cash assistance in some cases child support. When they use the card it prompts them to use the different programs for example at the grocery store they'd have to select the food stamps account to with draw cash or use it for something other then food they'd have to be receiving some other kind of assistance, welfare check child support something like that.

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All of it. If you are capable of working then you should work...period! Sitting on your duff and collecting subsidies is a slap in the face of every working American. I say again, I have no problem with assisting people out of poverty. Welfare for life does not do that.

I think a big problem is the scaled version of distribution as soon as someone starts to work out of poverty we pull the rug out on assistance. It creates an incentive to never earn enough to take the next step on the financial ladder.

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I don't think there's restrictions on EBT cards for cash assistance. I think partly because child support sometimes goes on there for some reason. (Like when a father pays child support, not the state)

That would make sense but you'd hope child support isn't being spent at liquor stores and strip clubs. Not sure there's really a way to stop it.

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