That's because Beasley is still the more explosive athlete than Ray, and he shows much better agility than Ray as well. From a pure pass rushing stand point, Beasley is better than Ray.

Beasley is clearly the more explosive athlete but I would say their first couple steps are very close. People attempt to chalk up Ray's get off to counting the snap, which he does, but he does have a good initial get off. What happens after that is what makes Beasley the better pass rusher IMO.

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"Sucess Is Not a Goal, It is a By-product"

I absolutely question Ray's explosiveness. He has an ok first step, but like you said in the third line, he is good at timing the snap. He didn't get a single outside sack all year on plays that weren't 4th down and/or extreme passing situations with a big lead.

I don't get the whole "he only got sacks on 4th or 3rd and long" complaint. I kind of get what your trying to make a case for but why is it a bad thing if a guy gets sacks when both OL & DL know its a passing down.


Wouldn't you want somebody who can win even when both sides know what's coming?


If I'm not understanding what your argument is, please let me know. I'm speaking matter of factly and not trying to be argumentative.

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"Sucess Is Not a Goal, It is a By-product"

I don't get the whole "he only got sacks on 4th or 3rd and long" complaint. I kind of get what your trying to make a case for but why is it a bad thing if a guy gets sacks when both OL & DL know its a passing down.


Wouldn't you want somebody who can win even when both sides know what's coming?


If I'm not understanding what your argument is, please let me know. I'm speaking matter of factly and not trying to be argumentative.

I mean, the OL always knows what's coming lol...the DL knowing what's coming is the great equalizer. 

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strength-wise, KY keeps talking about the bench press.... but beasley gets stonewalled by TEs and OL alike, often. difficulty shedding blocks, whereas fowler doesnt have that happen as often.

Just stop...


15 vs 33 is all you need to really focus on for a Leo.


Beasley got home a lot more than Fowler and has the much more explosive skill set. All this block shedding and setting the edge to stop the run BS needs to stop...that's not what we need at the Leo.


If player A is an elite sack guy with questionable "on field" strength


And


Player B is a decent sack guy with better run game presence...


You take player A for the Leo and don't think twice.

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I mean, the OL always knows what's coming lol...the DL knowing what's coming is the great equalizer.

Yeah I get that but how is it a knock on a guys game if he wins when he's supposed to win? How is that a negative thing like you've tried to make it.


Maybe I just don't see that as a downside to a guys game. Lets not draft a guy because he only wins on obvious passing downs? That doesn't make sense to me.


I'm not implying that Ray should be taken at three or anywhere else for that matter. I'm just arguing that a guy winning when he's supposed to win is not really a knock on his game as you've attempted to portray it.

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"Sucess Is Not a Goal, It is a By-product"

Yeah I get that but how is it a knock on a guys game if he wins when he's supposed to win? How is that a negative thing like you've tried to make it.


Maybe I just don't see that as a downside to a guys game. Lets not draft a guy because he only wins on obvious passing downs? That doesn't make sense to me.


I'm not implying that Ray should be taken at three or anywhere else for that matter. I'm just arguing that a guy winning when he's supposed to win is not really a knock on his game as you've attempted to portray it.

I'm trying to say that pretty much any DE can win when they can pin their ears back. Heck, Andre Branch can win on obvious passing downs. 

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I'm trying to say that pretty much any DE can win when they can pin their ears back. Heck, Andre Branch can win on obvious passing downs.

Sadly, he really can't. I still don't buy it as a knock for a guy who wins when he's supposed. But alright man thanks for clarifying what you meant.

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"Sucess Is Not a Goal, It is a By-product"

Sadly, he really can't. I still don't buy it as a knock for a guy who wins when he's supposed. But alright man thanks for clarifying what you meant.

"Obvious passing down" doesn't even mean simply third and long in Rays case. Literally his only outside sacks came on 4th down with Mizzou up by 2+ scores late in the game. Except one 2nd and long while up 28-0 on UF in the 3rd Q. 

 

I mean the absolute most extreme of passing downs is the only time he got his outside sacks. Situations he won't get in the NFL. He didn't "win when he was supposed to" on normal 3rd and long passing situations even.

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I don't get the whole "he only got sacks on 4th or 3rd and long" complaint. I kind of get what your trying to make a case for but why is it a bad thing if a guy gets sacks when both OL & DL know its a passing down.


Wouldn't you want somebody who can win even when both sides know what's coming?


If I'm not understanding what your argument is, please let me know. I'm speaking matter of factly and not trying to be argumentative.

Bingo

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Just stop...


15 vs 33 is all you need to really focus on for a Leo.


Beasley got home a lot more than Fowler and has the much more explosive skill set. All this block shedding and setting the edge to stop the run [BAD WORD REMOVED] needs to stop...that's not what we need at the Leo.


If player A is an elite sack guy with questionable "on field" strength


And


Player B is a decent sack guy with better run game presence...


You take player A for the Leo and don't think twice.

Well there you have it. Whoever leads the NCAA in sacks is the best pass rusher ever. The end.

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Amari Cooper is JB without the issues and the weight...very smart kid too.

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Amari Cooper is JB without the issues and the weight...very smart kid too.

Not to mention he might be the best route runner to come out of college in a long time.

 

AJ Green, Julio and Calvin are all physically more imposing but Cooper is a great runner.

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Well there you have it. Whoever leads the NCAA in sacks is the best pass rusher ever. The end.

Yet you're the one who keeps comparing Suggs to Fowler...the best single sack season vs 15 total.


Beasley has Fowler beat on measurables and production when it comes to sacking the QB. Is it really a stretch for you to think Beasley is the better Leo prospect?

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Everyone talks about the bench reps. The power comes from the legs. Would love to see how many squats each player could do

That's why I like to look at vert and broad jump. Shows leg explosion.

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Williams or Cooper and I'll be happy

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Beasley is clearly the more explosive athlete but I would say their first couple steps are very close. People attempt to chalk up Ray's get off to counting the snap, which he does, but he does have a good initial get off. What happens after that is what makes Beasley the better pass rusher IMO.

Yep, agree 100%. I'm not going to hold it against Ray that he jumps the snap. You see the explosiveness regardless. It's what happens when he doesn't beat that OT with his first step that is my question with him.

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Amari Cooper is JB without the issues and the weight...very smart kid too.

 

Cooper is JB with better speed minus JB's catch radius.

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Cooper is JB with better speed minus JB's catch radius.

JBs catch radius is insane.

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Cooper is JB with better speed minus JB's catch radius.

Cooper is on Mike and Mike right now and he said he's been watching Rice, Green and Julio tape.

 

They then said he compares to Marvin Harrison....

 

Williams or Cooper please.

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Cooper is on Mike and Mike right now and he said he's been watching Rice, Green and Julio tape.


They then said he compares to Marvin Harrison....


Williams or Cooper please.

Good comparison in terms of physical ability.

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."