Again, I don't remember him being that hyped at all. Maybe by the Jacksonville media after the fact, but Texas A&M has had a history of turning out overhyped OT's that amount to nothing in the NFL.

Joeckel was one of the best tackle prospects to come out since Joe Thomas. The guy was an elite tackle prospect

---

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/clevezirm/status/829105684461465601'>https://twitter.com/clevezirm/status/829105684461465601</a>


On the other hand, we might be dealing with a freak in Thomas too. For reference, Donald did a 4.39, Fowler did a 4.32, Beasley did a 4.15, and Von Miller did at 4.06.


If 4.09 winds up being even close to legit that's insane for his density.

If he has a freaky combine and runs close to that would you take him over Allen?


Could be tempting.

---

There was so much hype for Joeckel in college it was crazy

---

If he has a freaky combine and runs close to that would you take him over Allen?


Could be tempting.

I would take him over Allen anyways

---

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=3><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff6600 size=4></FONT></B></FONT>

If he has a freaky combine and runs close to that would you take him over Allen?


Could be tempting.

I'm not sure I'd take him over Allen but this is a scenario where the combine performance could change my order.


They're so close right now but a time like that makes me wonder...

---

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

I'm not sure I'd take him over Allen but this is a scenario where the combine performance could change my order.


They're so close right now but a time like that makes me wonder...

Would make you wonder how he would have done in that Bama defense.


Allen could turn in a pretty big combine too though , for his size he's pretty nifty.

---

If he has a freaky combine and runs close to that would you take him over Allen?


Could be tempting.

I'm not opposed to it already considering medicals. Allen's two existing shoulder surgeries and rumors of a third already needed is scary. 

---

Joeckel was one of the best tackle prospects to come out since Joe Thomas. The guy was an elite tackle prospect

That's what big draft said, but I think the Chiefs taking an unproven, small school player at the same position before Luke kinda proves that argument wrong. 

---

That's what big draft said, but I think the Chiefs taking an unproven, small school player at the same position before Luke kinda proves that argument wrong.

all that proved is that Chiefs liked Fisher better. Just because Aaron Curry went 4th to Seattle doesn't take away from the fact that he was a great prospect just because he didn't pan out. Same with Trent Richardson.

---

all that proved is that Chiefs liked Fisher better. Just because Aaron Curry went 4th to Seattle doesn't take away from the fact that he was a great prospect just because he didn't pan out. Same with Trent Richardson.

If front offices truly thought Curry was the greatest linebacker since Ray Lewis and Trich was the greatest running back since Peterson (equitable comps to Joeckel/Thomas) they wouldn't have been passed over by an unproven small school player at the same position. Just cause the media said it doesn't mean that's how NFL teams thought, cause obviously the only one who could have proven that statement correct didn't. 

---

That's what big draft said, but I think the Chiefs taking an unproven, small school player at the same position before Luke kinda proves that argument wrong. 

 

Not sure how Fisher was "unproven". He was an all-american, dominated at the senior bowl, even before the senior bowl he was seen (by some) as one of the top players regardless of position in that draft. 

---

Not sure how Fisher was "unproven". He was an all-american, dominated at the senior bowl, even before the senior bowl he was seen (by some) as one of the top players regardless of position in that draft.

That's just big draft talk.

---

If front offices truly thought Curry was the greatest linebacker since Ray Lewis and Trich was the greatest running back since Peterson (equitable comps to Joeckel/Thomas) they wouldn't have been passed over by an unproven small school player at the same position. Just cause the media said it doesn't mean that's how NFL teams thought, cause obviously the only one who could have proven that statement correct didn't.

Joeckel was picked higher than Thomas and Ray Lewis was pick 26th. I don't think you know the definition of prospect. When looking back at how good of a prospect a player was is irrelevant of how good he was as a pro. When looking at it in hindsight it always looks good or like you know it all because you know how the future plays out. But if Ryan Leaf and Tom Brady come out in the same draft you take Ryan Leaf every time. Ryan Leaf was a very god QB prospect but it just didn't pan out.

---

Allens health is the biggest factor on him vs Thomas.

---

Would make you wonder how he would have done in that Bama defense.


Allen could turn in a pretty big combine too though , for his size he's pretty nifty.

True. And Thomas was really good at Stanford with less help around him obviously.


He doesn't have a traditional fit in our defense, but you draft the talent and make the system work for them.

---

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Man, I just see it so hard for us to not take Fournette over Allen, Thomas or anyone really at 4. Daniel Jeremiah said he asked a scout who has been doing it for 30 something years for a comparison and he said "LeBron James". 

 

If this regime is all in on Bortles they will help him first and foremost. I feel like they think the defense is at the very least serviceable but the offense needs to attack FA for lineman then go for Fournette. I really don't think fans understand how out of this world scouts believe Fournette is. He's considered the Allen/Thomas on offense in this draft and then some. 

 

Not to mention if you look at Marrone's style of offense he wants a strong running game. 

---

Man, I just see it so hard for us to not take Fournette over Allen, Thomas or anyone really at 4. Daniel Jeremiah said he asked a scout who has been doing it for 30 something years for a comparison and he said "LeBron James".


If this regime is all in on Bortles they will help him first and foremost. I feel like they think the defense is at the very least serviceable but the offense needs to attack FA for lineman then go for Fournette. I really don't think fans understand how out of this world scouts believe Fournette is. He's considered the Allen/Thomas on offense in this draft and then some.


Not to mention if you look at Marrone's style of offense he wants a strong running game.

Im good with Fournette

---

 I really don't think fans understand how out of this world scouts believe Fournette is. He's considered the Allen/Thomas on offense in this draft and then some. 

Ok, let's continue with the idea that Fournette is the same as Allen/Thomas (I don't think he is but for the sake of this discussion). You still have to deal with the fact that RBs careers are shorter, their peaks are shorter, and their injuries are higher (both by number and duration). Then you factor in this RB draft class that is extremely deep and versatile. There will be quality options available even into day 3. Taking an RB at 4 when there are similar talents available at much more important positions is short sighted at best, and just plain stupid at worst. 

 

Here's a chart for the injuries:

Position   Games    Injuries/Game     Avg Inj Length (G)     Games Available of 16

DE             2117            3.9%                     3.0                                 14.3

DT             1271            4.3%                     2.9                                 14.2

RB             1487            5.2%                     3.9                                 13.3

S               1954            4.7%                     3.0                                 14.0 

---

Ok, let's continue with the idea that Fournette is the same as Allen/Thomas (I don't think he is but for the sake of this discussion). You still have to deal with the fact that RBs careers are shorter, their peaks are shorter, and their injuries are higher (both by number and duration). Then you factor in this RB draft class that is extremely deep and versatile. There will be quality options available even into day 3. Taking an RB at 4 when there are similar talents available at much more important positions is short sighted at best, and just plain stupid at worst. 

 

Here's a chart for the injuries:

Position   Games    Injuries/Game     Avg Inj Length (G)     Games Available of 16

DE             2117            3.9%                     3.0                                 14.3

DT             1271            4.3%                     2.9                                 14.2

RB             1487            5.2%                     3.9                                 13.3

S               1954            4.7%                     3.0                                 14.0 

 

Hell, there's quality d-lineman going into day 3 as well. You think Dallas would do it differently if they were asked if they would pick anyone else at 4 besides Elliott? If there's a running back who is scouted on the level of Adrian Peterson you don't pass him up. Especially with a young QB who needs to be fixed in an offense that was pitiful in moving the football. Saying there are similar talents to LF is just plain wrong. The guy is a thumper and the short area quickness for a man that size is unheard of. The leg and thigh power to shake off defenders is remarkable and he can kill a defense with speed and/or power. Defensive coordinators scheme for a guy like that. They stack the box for that kind of talent and our talented WRs would be the beneficiary. That kind of talent doesn't just open up your playbook, it writes it's own for you. 

---

Of course they wouldn't admit it, but the Cowboys should absolutely wish they took Ramsey. Their YPC was a leading 4.8 yards last year, up a whopping .2 from an already top 5 in 2015. Their ascent was due waaaaaaay more from the QB leap to Prescott from Cassel/Moore/Weeden than it was from the RB leap to Elliott from McFadden. Not to mention Ramsey is more likely to play for many years longer than Elliott, at an elite level for more years before dropping off, and having fewer injuries throughout his career. 

 

I would also high question the short area quickness of Fournette. He is fast, not quick. His poor Stuff % and Elusive Rating would suggest that he is not making people miss. Once he gets past the LOS and gets his momentum going then he is very fast and terrifying, however. 

 

Here is his missed tackle/elusiveness compared to other RBs from the last two drafts:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4CKUN5WMAADjED.jpg:small

---